When Bad Fanfic Happens to Good Characters, Part II

[mark_asphodel]

 Part Two: When Pairings Eat A Fandom

I missed a key development in the Tellius fandom-- the release of FE10 and the havoc it wrought-- because I was at that time lazing around in the SSB fandom.  My main points of contact with actual Fire Emblem fans during that time were the incursions of butthurt Roy fans and batshit insane Lyn fans, none of whom were really good ambassadors for the FE community.  (Long story short: if you think Lyn "deserved" to be in SSB:B as something "better than" an assist trophy, OK.  You think Marth should've been cut to make room for her, GFY and you need a history lesson.)

Not that the post-FE10 Ike/Soren wank didn't hit SSB:B fandom.  There was lots of handwringing and denial and flaming, not least because a lot of players and writers seem to have blissfully assumed that the Nintendo gods had, with Ike's inclusion, finally given them a straight (read: manly) rep from Fire Emblem to play with.  So the question of Soren-or-Ranulf went down like shards of broken glass.  I was mostly confused; I figured the initial reports of Ike's FE10 ending were lies, simply because I'd seen lies and hoaxes of that nature so many times across various fandoms.  Also, my spotty knowledge of FE9 led me to believe that Ike/Elincia was where things were going, because, again-- it's Fire Emblem, and that's how the games always go, right?

[SSB:B fandom also had some vocal Ike/Lethe fans to add to the confusion.]

By the time I meandered back into actual FE fandom toward the beginning of 2009, Ike/Soren was well past the point of controversy (obviously some people are still spazzing out over it in various communities, but COME ON NOW.)  And it was everywhere.

And it was mostly terrible.  I swear that I've seen Soren written better in a handful of SSB-themed stories wherein he was his actual prickly, snarky, unsociable self.  I haven't finished FE9, but any amount of contact with canon!Soren puts the lie to his standard 'fic portrayal.  Hell, flipping through the game manual indicates that something is amiss with fanfic!Soren.  I read a lot of Ike/Soren for a while because I was interested in what the depiction of a canon-approved m/m pairing would look like via fandom, and to my chagrin it was the same garbage as any other yaoi pairing: manly!seme, weepy!uke.  Same worn-out tropes as used by Harry Potter fans, or Gundam Wing fans, or any other fanbase obsessed with pairing pretty boys.

Given I like canon!Soren, this was painful.  Still is.  

Ike/Soren turned into a hot-button issue for the fandom, as demonstrated by the wank that even mentioning it will net you on emblanon  and elsewhere.  Some of this may be because it's two dudes together.  Some of it may be because it's just so popular.  But I don't think the reaction would be quite as extreme if so many of the stories weren't hack jobs composed of anime cliches and terrible characterizations, with or without random fangirl Japanese thrown in.  I get the impression that Tellius writers who aren't on the Ike/Soren bandwagon feel overshadowed, or at the very least outnumbered, by I/S and its attendant wank, and I can't blame them.  Maybe it'll pass in time, the way the era of bad Kent/Sain stories faded, but here we are in 2011, so who knows?

I guess the real question is, why do people who have presumably played the games write Soren in this way?  Did they just see some fanart over at DA and decide to 'fic it?  Are they just focusing on a couple of emotional moments in the games (which, as I understand it, are important because they are NOT the norm) and discarding all the rest of it?  Or is it another closed circle, a feedback loop wherein writers are basing their entire perception of a character or pairing on the way it's done in other fanfics?  I suspect the last comes heavily into play.

The other question is, why does nobody care about poor Ranulf?

Stay tuned if you like for Part III: Canon, What Canon?  In the meantime, recs for good Ike/Soren stories are appreciated, and feel free to pimp your own.

Comments

[raphiael]

You think Marth should've been cut to make room for her, GFY and you need a history lesson.
Hey, you know, while we're at it, I think it'd be awesome to have Shy Guy playable. Let's cut Mario!
Really, what.

I think a lot of it is just the slash mentality. There's a big difference between writing a real homosexual relationship and writing what most fans see "slash" as being. I derped about it somewhere re:Raven/Lucius, too. Instead of being true to the characters and the situations, writers mush one into the stereotypical "female" role and the other into an exaggerated "male" role - almost always based on who is smaller/prettier/more woobie. I think it's more a sign of ignorance than anything else. Doing that, to me, and putting that emphasis on who sticks what where, it doesn't say you love the couple, or the characters, or even that you're okay with gay people in general. It says you're a lazy writer who'd rather swap a couple names in the cliche BL manga and call it a day than actually spend some time thinking about the characters you supposedly love enough to write about.

I think it creates a stigma, too - like you mentioned, the inevitable haaaate that comes with Ike/Soren. I don't see it yet, but if I do? I'm not sure I can like it without being affected by the terrible, terrible stuff out there and feeling less comfortable with it.

[raphiael]

Oh, and r_amethyst has some good AU Ike/Soren going on, if I remember correctly.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Hey, you know, while we're at it, I think it'd be awesome to have Shy Guy playable. Let's cut Mario!

It was not a good time to be a Marth fan in SSB-land. In between the Roy crazies and the Lyn crazies... well, it never made any sense. One, Marth starred in the best-selling FE game ever. Two, Marth's popularity because of this is the only reason there was FE content in Melee to begin with (and Roy was included after the fact as an advertisement for FE6). Three, Marth was AWESOME in Melee. Four, because Marth and Roy won people over internationally by being cute and interesting and awesome, FE7 got an international release and fans got to meet their precious Lyn.

So, yeah. Dropping Marth to include Lyn or Hector or Ephraim or Micaiah or SIGURD (whut?) in his stead just wasn't on the cards. But the haaaaaaaate circa late '07 and early '08 was a thing to behold.

Cemented my view that FE fans were dicks, I'll tell you.

[Personal view-- if they did have a third FE rep in SSB, it should've been Ephraim or Hector, because the game has enough sword users. And Micaiah in practice might've just been another Zelda.]

or even that you're okay with gay people in general.

I doubt most of these writers can ever have spent time around a gay couple.

The thing is, some series play to that sort of BL stereotype. They GIVE you the manly seme and the precious woobie uke. But to take Soren and force him into it... ARGH.

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

I'd blame the FE10 support with Soren crying for all the bad seme/uke!Ike/Soren out there, but people were writing it that way before FE10 even came OUT.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's kind of what I gathered. -_-

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

the incursions of butthurt Roy fans and batshit insane Lyn fans, none of whom were really good ambassadors for the FE community. (Long story short: if you think Lyn "deserved" to be in SSB:B as something "better than" an assist trophy, OK. You think Marth should've been cut to make room for her, GFY and you need a history lesson.)
I was bitter towards Ike because Roy got cut, but I was pissed off because Roy was my main in Melee, so I'd have to use a new character in Brawl. Yes, Marth and Roy are clones, but there are a lot of differences between the two. Roy's aerials are fail, for example, and he feels heavier than Marth does. And I thought it'd be cool to have Lyn there as more than an assist because hey, there needs to be more female characters in Smash Brothers. But I absolutely loved Marth and that has nothing to do with loving his seiyuu I swear, was excited and happy beyond belief when I found out he was in Brawl via leaked Brawl openings when it came out in Japan and we had to wait a month or whatever.

Also, you know, Marth was the first Fire Emblem lord ever. If it weren't for Marth, there would've been no Fire Emblem, full stop. And he's fucking badass.

It'd be kinda like saying, oh, I want a playable redead, let's cut Link! In the grand scheme of things, Lyn's not really all that important compared to Marth or Ike. Yeah, she was (one of the) lords in the first American FE, but then Eliwood and Hector should be in Brawl too using that logic. Marth started Fire Emblem and Ike was in the first 3D one. (And they didn't have to hunt for voices for them either--Marth had an anime and Ike's had voice acting to begin with.)

I have to admit that the whole Ike/Soren thing has turned me off of FE9/10, mostly because it's like, THE pairing of the fandom. I ship Ike/Janaff. Where the hell do I go? It's like shipping het in Weiss Kreuz fandom, or not liking 1x2. At least the last one was Jossed. Ike/Soren is pretty much canon and it's everywhere.

[raphiael]

and that has nothing to do with loving his seiyuu I swear
y-you and me both.
Why do I not have a Mikage icon? Pffft have Judas instead.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Roy's aerials are fail, for example

Some dude on GameFaqs wrote a six-part manifesto for why Roy "deserved" to be in Brawl, all based off FE6 canon, and I wish that I'd saved it. But the issue with Roy is, it doesn't matter if he led the Lycian Alliance Army at age fifteen or whatever. Every Lord in Fire Emblem has that kind of Specialness on his/her resume. It matters that the sweet spot of his sword was too far down the blade and his aerials were fail. Adios, Roy. Time to pimp the newcomer's games.

Lyn's not really all that important compared to Marth or Ike.

Shh. Her crazy fans might hear you.

Really, in between the Roy's Mom Wank and the Assist Trophy Wank... Lyn's fans caused more headaches than anyone else's, at least from what I saw.

[Present company on the f-list excepted. If y'all were the batshit people who were trolling SSB communities, you've hidden it well.]

And they didn't have to hunt for voices for them either

Oh, god, Lyn's VA was awful. AWFUL.

I ship Ike/Janaff. Where the hell do I go?

Uh... that's really uncommon, yeah.

[wolfraven80.livejournal.com]

Same worn-out tropes as used by Harry Potter fans, or Gundam Wing fans, or any other fanbase obsessed with pairing pretty boys.

That's probably because it's the same fans writing the fics. In fact, I came from the Harry Potter fandom, though I didn't write fic for it -- there was no need with so much readily available, and I was very shy at the time (this would have been way back in 2003). Also, I read het fics, not slash, though I promise you it was as active and crazed a segment of fandom as any other.

I have a lot of similar reservations about slash fic. Most of the time one of the characters is turned into a girl. Also they tend to represent a female fantasy about male character and relationships and oftentimes these fantasies come at the expense of characterization. Of course that can happen with het fic as well, for example bad boy fics where a villain or unpleasant character is miraculously converted into a caring, thoughtful man by the power of lurrrv.

We all have our little quirks that draw us to read and/or write certain kinds of stories. What bothers me is when characterization is sacrificed in order to fit characters into a desired mold. But then it's fandom and there's always going to be a lot of badfic out there no matter what sort of story one looks for.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

though I promise you it was as active and crazed a segment of fandom as any other.

Actually, Part III is going to touch upon a subset of HP fandom that remains frothing crazy years after the release of Deathly Hallows.

Of course that can happen with het fic as well, for example bad boy fics where a villain or unpleasant character is miraculously converted into a caring, thoughtful man by the power of lurrrv.

Indeed. Though I see that more in book fandom (HP, again) than anime/manga fandom.

there's always going to be a lot of badfic out there no matter what sort of story one looks for.

The puzzle, to me, is not so much "why badfic?" as "why do certain types of badfic dominate a fandom?" And why does the downward spiral feel so depressingly familiar in so many cases?

[thenicochan.livejournal.com]

As a huge Tellius, and Ike/Soren, fan it does bug me how 80% of the fandom focuses on their unrealistic depictions of Ike/Soren, while the other 20% hate it with the unbridled passion of a thousand burning suns.Rarely, does it seem there is a middle ground.

Of my personal opinion (One I've made note of a number of times in my journal, including my post comparing Ike/Soren to Nick/Ellis from Left 4 Dead, that I believe you commented on) Ike/Soren is a interesting, and complex, pairing, that is unfortunately left to become "Kawaii uke desu" in the hands of the writers who are just doing it wrong. It's the same reason I dislike most BL things. Like Gravitation, where the entire story relies on those awful stereotypes that are, honestly, mildly offensive.

Oh, yeah, but I like Ike/Ranulf about as much as Ike/Soren. They're cute together, but they are also both masculine- so that kinda ruins the fangirls dreams of having Ike comfort a beautiful young woman man, and drying his pained tears of painful pain.

Ike/Ranulf seems to be more popular in Japan, at least. If we're going by the fanart.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

They're cute together, but they are also both masculine- so that kinda ruins the fangirls dreams of having Ike comfort a beautiful young woman man, and drying his pained tears of painful pain.

Yeah, that's my working assumption on it, too. Sigh. You'd think a catboy with heterochromatic eyes would score more fans than he does. I mean, fangirls love slapping ears and tails on their yaoi bait, and Ranulf comes with the package!

[hooves.livejournal.com]

Like Gravitation, where the entire story relies on those awful stereotypes that are, honestly, mildly offensive.

...Hahahaha. Yeah, no lie. I saw an "abridged" piece of that. Now, even with that the ACTIONS going on? Made me go AHH NOT MORE OF THIS UNREALISTIC SHIT AGAIN.

Poor Ike. Poor Soren. :(

Ranulf is the coolest dude ever. By the way. Just saying.

[samuraiter.livejournal.com]

Why is Ranulf not the big choice in the U.S.? My theory: The earflaps. *sage nod* Joshua may be proof that a cool hat is a big help, but a not-so-cool hat can have the opposite effect.

I dislike canon Soren because he is ... himself. Abrasive, blunt, rude, and unsmiling. Now, I enjoy using him in the game, since he is powerful, and I can see why he and Ike might become close, but the fan interpretations of him are ... yikes. (Me? Ike / Mia, thus far, since Elincia strikes me as too much of a wet blanket where I am in the game.) Nothing against the pairing itself, since, IMO, there is room for all kinds, but it has gotten out of control. A more recent incarnation of Trowa / Quatre, perhaps?

Hmm. This discussion is making me appreciate how things have developed on the Archanea end. We don't really have buggery like this.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

The hat is unsexy, I do admit.

A more recent incarnation of Trowa / Quatre, perhaps?

Without the flame wars over the "need" for Ike to be uke because OMG all mercenaries abuse little boys.

Hmm. Crossover time!

We don't really have buggery like this.

I suspect that there are people who are Not Happy with with prevailing direction of Archanea stories. At least, I've had enough dissonant moments in the course of review replies and PMs that indicate that certain fan-itches are not being scratched.

"I love Navarre!" -- I don't.

"I really like Nyna and Camus!"-- Have some jacked-up Marth/Nyna instead.

"Lena and Julian are my favorites!"-- Uh, maybe kittykatloren can help you?

"I can't get enough of fluffy Marth/Sheeda romance!"-- Boy, are you ever SOL.

But until they show up en masse with pitchforks, I'm not going to worry about them.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

You're probably right about the hat. Or headband...thing. WTF is that thing anyway. I agree it kind of ruins Ranulf's sexiness. Possible sexiness, anyway. It doesn't seem to serve a purpose. For a while I thought he tried to use it to cover his ears? But when I squinted at the official art (I keep my computer too far from my face!) I could tell the official art clearly shows his ears. And they twitch in a cinematic in FE10. So. It doesn't make sense.

[r-amythest.livejournal.com]

I feel the need to note that Soren was not nearly as rude in the Japanese. He was tactless, in a sense, but the only true rudeness he showed were in regards to the laguz and when he was getting overemotional (eg PoR 11 pre-script -- the rant about humanity), and in the latter case, he still demonstrated some restraint.

[myaru.livejournal.com]

I'm one of those Tellius fans that started out liking Ike/Soren and gradually grew to hate it as I read more fic, mainly because of the mis-characterization of Soren. AU, canon, it doesn't matter - the sarcastic, badass tactician suddenly becomes a stereotypical weepy girl, and his intelligence ceases to exist in fanon. There are a few writers I like, though. The pairing is still attractive to me in theory, but I avoid writers I don't know, that haven't been recommended to me.

However, I don't feel hostile toward the pairing; I don't feel it has overshadowed my interests. That's silly. There's plenty of love and fanwork for all of the Mercenaries. If anything, Crimea overshadows everyone else on Tellius; it's when you want Begnion, Daein, Gallia, or Goldoa that you have nothing to read. Never mind Hatari.

Or is it another closed circle, a feedback loop wherein writers are basing their entire perception of a character or pairing on the way it's done in other fanfics?

Yes. In many cases it seems that writers will even draw on their own previous fics to write the same thing, and thus loop in on themselves. Not all of them do it, but some just write the same thing over and over. I'm sure it appeals if you're in love with the pairing, but it may not endear new readers.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

I don't feel it has overshadowed my interests.

Kind of agreeing with this. Mostly because you can always search for stuff that is of interest.

Never mind Hatari.

Is there even much known about Hatari?

In many cases it seems that writers will even draw on their own previous fics to write the same thing, and thus loop in on themselves.

/raises hand. Yep. This. So much. Sometimes it's worse than others. If the first 'fic is already really bad, the following will be a sharp downhill slope. If the first is fairly good, it will be a downhill slope, but significantly less steep.

[shining-valor.livejournal.com]

So feedback loops are like cancer... they distort the truth of the matter and continually warp things until they are unrecognizable from the original cell and rabid to boot.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Yes!

Or a degraded signal that degenerates into white noise.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

Okay, I will read comments later because I have too much to say that I don't want to forget instantly.

1.) I actually ship Ike/Soren. Don't shoot. I know this is a shock to anyone reading this because I haven't made it like, amazingly public knowledge. I see where it comes from. I don't ship it the way others ship it, but I ship it. But we're not really talking about that, I just wanted to say that.

2.) I was very excited that Lyn was an assist trophy. First thing I did was do the practice mode thing and throw trophies until I got her. I AM SUCH A NERD. HAHAHA. But seriously. That she made it into the game at ALL was amazing to me. FE7 was not very well known and still isn't. And it doesn't have shiny graphics. I'd have been stoked if she DID make it into the game as a playable-- I mean, definitely!-- but I was cool with the fact she made it there at all. I'd still be playing Smash if she was a playable. Though my main was always Pikachu.

3.) I still feel guilty that I puked all over the Ike + Soren controversy mentally. I hated the pairing and the games without ever playing them SOLELY because of the crappy fanfiction. That sounds horrible. But it was literally a huge chunk of the fandom at the time. And anything that said Ike/Soren, or even MENTIONED Soren made me cringe.

4.) Obviously having played the games now. Just look at Soren's official art. DOES HE LOOK WEEPY?!

5.) I think they get the uke!!Soren thing from his A support with Ike.

6.) I mean, I warped some characterization with writing KentLyn after writing it for a couple of years without really looking at game script. I kind of fell into headcanon land? Which is a bad place. But!! I didn't even do as badly as some did to Soren. And Soren's a jackass through the entire script. C'mon. He had one period of time where he admitted something and was upset. This does not make him a weepy uke whatever. Sadness. I can't defend the morons who wrote him really badly because...I don't know where they got him being like that regularly. It happened once in canon. WTF.

7.) I think perhaps new fandomgoes kind of based their Sorens off of some of the others. I can't blame them, sorta? If you're new to fandom you might feel that your perception of canon!Soren is wrong due to how others are portraying him.

8.) I LOVE RANULF OKAY. He's so cute and fun. One of the coolest personalities in the game! I doubt I'd be good at writing him, though. But someday. I will write Ranulf fic. And Lethe fic. Neither get much love. Actually laguz in general don't get much love... except the bird tribes, but mostly because Myaru takes the time to love them. :/ Hm.

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

1.) I actually ship Ike/Soren. Don't shoot. I know this is a shock to anyone reading this because I haven't made it like, amazingly public knowledge. I see where it comes from. I don't ship it the way others ship it, but I ship it. But we're not really talking about that, I just wanted to say that.

I'm still very surprised to find out Manna has a slash ship. XD What drew you to them, if you don't mind me asking?

[xirysa.livejournal.com]

I hated Soren and Ike at first because of the sheer amount of crapfic I saw when I first came to the FE section. And then I started playing the Tellius games whenever I went to my friend's house (still haven't finished them lol) and decided Soren was my favorite character because he's an insensitive jerkass and I'm an insensitive jerkass and we insensitive jerkasses gotta stick together.

And even though I kind of ship Ike/Soren I think I might just ship Ike/Ranulf a bit more because of what's in the fandom--as a rule I tend to stay away from same-sex couples in the Tellius verse just because of badfic in the past, unless it's been written by someone I know who's a good writer and can write it well.

[r-amythest.livejournal.com]

My personal recs:

And Yet, in Spite of (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6590899/1/And_Yet_In_Spite_Of) - The dog was there when Soren woke up, curled in its usual spot at the foot of the bed. For a few seconds, everything felt normal. Post-FE10, post-Ike/Soren.

Ash Falls (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5062928/1/Ash_Falls) - The seas swallow Tellius until there are only wastelands and rocky mountains to cross. Apocalyptic Ashera won AU, platonic Ike&Soren

For historical purposes, I feel the need to mention Once a Prince (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2774587/1/Once_a_Prince), which is a plotty multichapter Ike/Soren that was really popular in the early days of FE9. It ended up rather eerily similar to that which became canon in FE10. I'm not sure how I feel about it as a fic anymore -- it's been ages. But it's something of a classic. Similarly, Asidian (http://www.fanfiction.net/u/87683/Asidian)'s drabbles are cute.

As far as heavier porny things go, I heartily recommend all of Lily (http://nightflight12.livejournal.com/)'s smut pieces and almost no one else's.

I have more recs, if you have some particular genre/subject matter/approach in mind. My favorites tend to reflect the fact that I like depressing things.

I can talk about Ike/Soren forever but I'll try to be concise.

90% of everything is crap. Let's accept this as a premise. Furthermore, I would argue that for obscure pairings and characters, you have a higher percentage of quality fic.

Well, the crap has to end up somewhere. It usually ends up centered around the most popular of topics.

I adore Ike/Soren, despite my enduring preference for dysfunctional takes on the matter. If it has Soren in it, it better have some level of dysfunction. I am naturally saddened by Soren's constant uke portrayal, but it is nothing out of the ordinary for fandom at all and I've gotten quite accustomed to ignoring it. At one point I wanted to archive all the English Ike/Soren fanfiction on the internet that was passable, and so I can honestly say that I've read almost everything posted before August '08. I've read a large portion of what's come around since then. About half of it is pure shit. Some of it is highly entertaining shit. Of the rest, 80% of it is passable as a gratifying read to a fan of the pairing specifically. As with all things, very little is worthwhile to a reader of neutral standing.

Regarding Soren's ukification, I am actually more and more bothered by some sort of reactionary movement against Soren-the-uke which tends to lean either too far in the direction of "Soren is an asshole" or "Soren can get along just fine without Ike". These are less stereotypical, but just as OOC. Soren derives no pleasure from antagonizing people; he simply doesn't care if he happens to offend. Soren is remarkably sane, capable, and mentally resilient; that doesn't mean he has progressed past his trauma to emotional independence. Soren is not a uke, but there is a strong note of dependence/obsession in his devotion to Ike. He is not a uke, but this does not make him loud, even if he is blunt.

Regarding the exceptional status of emotional scenes, I think it should be noted that fanfic writers are by and large not interested in ficcing the norm.

And... Ranulf. I have always thought that the ending with Ranulf at the end of RD was bizarrely arbitrary and probably driven in no small part by 1) the Japanese fandom for Ike/Ranulf, and 2) the feeling that they need to give the main character more than one option. I'm clearly biased, but as Ranulf is a man with his own responsibilities to the new Gallian king and he and Ike were never much more than buddy-buddy, I have found that ending bizarre. (But not more bizarre than Ike's ending in general.)

I can literally rant forever if you just leave me here to talk. So I'll shut up until further prompted.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the recs! "And Yet, In Spite Of" was one I had read and I liked that very much. Good to know it's kosher.

If it has Soren in it, it better have some level of dysfunction.

Heh! I sympathize with this viewpoint.

As with all things, very little is worthwhile to a reader of neutral standing.

That might be a problem. I have read a number of highly competent Ike/Soren stories that have utterly failed to move me. As in, they simply left me cold.

2) the feeling that they need to give the main character more than one option

I suppose I should be glad that this was one detail of the Archanea reboots they decided not to "fix," then. I would be skeptical of claims that a pairing existed to please a segment of the fanbase, but given the crap IS pulls in FE12, I am no longer willing to put it past them.

So I'll shut up until further prompted.

Please explain why I should care about Ike. The fanon!Soren issue is, after all, only half of the dilemma with Ike/Soren. What is a good, real, authentic Ike? And what actually makes him tick?