When Bad Fanfic Happens to Good Characters, Part II

[mark_asphodel]

 Part Two: When Pairings Eat A Fandom

I missed a key development in the Tellius fandom-- the release of FE10 and the havoc it wrought-- because I was at that time lazing around in the SSB fandom.  My main points of contact with actual Fire Emblem fans during that time were the incursions of butthurt Roy fans and batshit insane Lyn fans, none of whom were really good ambassadors for the FE community.  (Long story short: if you think Lyn "deserved" to be in SSB:B as something "better than" an assist trophy, OK.  You think Marth should've been cut to make room for her, GFY and you need a history lesson.)

Not that the post-FE10 Ike/Soren wank didn't hit SSB:B fandom.  There was lots of handwringing and denial and flaming, not least because a lot of players and writers seem to have blissfully assumed that the Nintendo gods had, with Ike's inclusion, finally given them a straight (read: manly) rep from Fire Emblem to play with.  So the question of Soren-or-Ranulf went down like shards of broken glass.  I was mostly confused; I figured the initial reports of Ike's FE10 ending were lies, simply because I'd seen lies and hoaxes of that nature so many times across various fandoms.  Also, my spotty knowledge of FE9 led me to believe that Ike/Elincia was where things were going, because, again-- it's Fire Emblem, and that's how the games always go, right?

[SSB:B fandom also had some vocal Ike/Lethe fans to add to the confusion.]

By the time I meandered back into actual FE fandom toward the beginning of 2009, Ike/Soren was well past the point of controversy (obviously some people are still spazzing out over it in various communities, but COME ON NOW.)  And it was everywhere.

And it was mostly terrible.  I swear that I've seen Soren written better in a handful of SSB-themed stories wherein he was his actual prickly, snarky, unsociable self.  I haven't finished FE9, but any amount of contact with canon!Soren puts the lie to his standard 'fic portrayal.  Hell, flipping through the game manual indicates that something is amiss with fanfic!Soren.  I read a lot of Ike/Soren for a while because I was interested in what the depiction of a canon-approved m/m pairing would look like via fandom, and to my chagrin it was the same garbage as any other yaoi pairing: manly!seme, weepy!uke.  Same worn-out tropes as used by Harry Potter fans, or Gundam Wing fans, or any other fanbase obsessed with pairing pretty boys.

Given I like canon!Soren, this was painful.  Still is.  

Ike/Soren turned into a hot-button issue for the fandom, as demonstrated by the wank that even mentioning it will net you on emblanon  and elsewhere.  Some of this may be because it's two dudes together.  Some of it may be because it's just so popular.  But I don't think the reaction would be quite as extreme if so many of the stories weren't hack jobs composed of anime cliches and terrible characterizations, with or without random fangirl Japanese thrown in.  I get the impression that Tellius writers who aren't on the Ike/Soren bandwagon feel overshadowed, or at the very least outnumbered, by I/S and its attendant wank, and I can't blame them.  Maybe it'll pass in time, the way the era of bad Kent/Sain stories faded, but here we are in 2011, so who knows?

I guess the real question is, why do people who have presumably played the games write Soren in this way?  Did they just see some fanart over at DA and decide to 'fic it?  Are they just focusing on a couple of emotional moments in the games (which, as I understand it, are important because they are NOT the norm) and discarding all the rest of it?  Or is it another closed circle, a feedback loop wherein writers are basing their entire perception of a character or pairing on the way it's done in other fanfics?  I suspect the last comes heavily into play.

The other question is, why does nobody care about poor Ranulf?

Stay tuned if you like for Part III: Canon, What Canon?  In the meantime, recs for good Ike/Soren stories are appreciated, and feel free to pimp your own.

Comments

[r-amythest.livejournal.com]

This ties in to our little conversation on Manna's post, but with fanfiction in particular, the neutral reader must remember that a lot of fanfiction is written with the satisfaction of certain groups in mind. This is certainly very true of pairingfic. In fact, the kind of Ike/Soren fic that's most appealing to the neutral reader is probably the least accessible to the people who like Ike/Soren -- and then the neutral readers skip over because EWWW IKE/SOREN. It is a difficult place to be. :P

If someone who supports Ike/Ranulf strongly would like to defend the ending for me, I'd be willing to listen. As it is, though, vanishing off the continent forever with someone is an extreme decision to make -- one Soren would make readily, but Ranulf?

Snort, Ike. Ike is hard. This is why I avoid writing him when at all possible. (I think I may have possibly never written a single piece from Ike's perspective.) Ike's difficulty, I think, lies in being so close to a cardboard protagonist cutout that writers tend to either get sucked into the cardboard, or veer too far away in an attempt not to hit cardboard.

I think part of the difficulty with Ike is that he has a certain mindset that is very effective when facilitated by the game. The game lets him win all the time, lets him do things in the name of justice, lets him fight bears and save countries. Put Ike in a situation where he can't Fight Things And Win and suddenly you have a lot of speculation to handle. Or, take Ike away from action and you have a very difficult character to portray. (It is perhaps comparable to the difficulty I find in trying to translate Soren's Brandedness to AU settings -- and for smaller projects, I usually just avoid bringing up the topic.)

As far as what makes him tick, that is something I am constantly trying to resolve with the ending of Radiant Dawn: that, despite his compassion, he is willing for one reason or another to vanish from a land after he promised many people that he wouldn't leave them. I must wonder if there's something secretly arrogant about Ike: he's so charismatic and people come to him so easily that he takes them for granted and runs off when fame annoys him. But that's not terribly consistent with his helpful attitude all through the games so...

See, start talking about Ike and it dissolves into bitching about RD's epilogue for me. Hah. As far as a more vanilla analysis goes, I think Sothe's remarks on him in 3-7 are pretty good.

Sothe: Well, let's see... He's generous. He doesn't care about petty things. He
holds no prejudice against laguz, nor does he care about the opinions of
the nobles. He's a master swordsman. He accomplishes everything he sets out
to do. He's a true hero.

Micaiah: I see. He sounds...quite different from King Pelleas.

Sothe: Micaiah, they don't even compare. King Pelleas lacks any leadership or
decision-making skills.

I think it's an interesting observation that even in-game, Ike is difficult to separate from his achievements.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

In fact, the kind of Ike/Soren fic that's most appealing to the neutral reader is probably the least accessible to the people who like Ike/Soren -- and then the neutral readers skip over because EWWW IKE/SOREN

I've never had a problem with Ike/Soren as a concept. But many is the time I've come across a story and said, "Oh, hey, Ike/Soren with an evocative title and nothing spelled wrong in the summary. Maybe this'll be good." And after reading such a story, my reaction has simply been, "These characters are utterly lifeless and I cannot give a damn about them." There have been exceptions, but I can count the exceptions on my fingers.

Ike's difficulty, I think, lies in being so close to a cardboard protagonist cutout that writers tend to either get sucked into the cardboard, or veer too far away in an attempt not to hit cardboard.

And this is part of my problem, I think, since why should I care about Ike/Soren if Soren is hung up on Ike and Ike is utterly dull? He's a likeable enough game protagonist, but I see no way into him as a character to explore, no vein of something interesting to exploit.

I think it says something that the most recent Ike/Soren I remember reading and liking featured dead!Ike and survivor!Soren.

But, I look forward to checking out your recs. :)

[r-amythest.livejournal.com]

But many is the time I've come across a story and said, "Oh, hey, Ike/Soren with an evocative title and nothing spelled wrong in the summary. Maybe this'll be good." And after reading such a story, my reaction has simply been, "These characters are utterly lifeless and I cannot give a damn about them." There have been exceptions, but I can count the exceptions on my fingers.

Isn't that true about almost anything you pick from the slush pile? I really do think, however, that for the non-shipper there exists a stigma against trying out Ike/Soren fic.

And this is part of my problem, I think, since why should I care about Ike/Soren if Soren is hung up on Ike and Ike is utterly dull?

Is liking a pairing a matter of the sum of the characters involved? I do not know you personally well enough to pick out the most poignant example for you, but surely you have had pairings you think are fascinating with characters you could give or take. Or, perhaps you have some characters you like quite a lot, but you find the idea of a romantic relationship between them to destroy the integrity of both.

My interests come in the following order, 1) Soren as a character, 2) Soren's dynamic with Ike, Ike/Soren as a pairing; insert great gulf in the x-axis here; 3) Ike as a character. Should I write Ike/Soren fic, naturally my understanding of 1 and 3 would affect the quality of said fic, but the central focus is on 2. 2 is my motivation for writing Ike/Soren. 1 and 3 may affect my interest in 2, but when it comes down to it, when we speak of a pairing alone it's ultimately a matter of the relationship and less so its players.

I'm aware that my grasp on either character affects the kind of fic I write for them in conjunction, which is why I avoid straining my weaknesses and generally angle them as more sympathetic to Soren, whom I am far more familiar with.

Writing Ike, for me -- and for many others primarily invested Ike/Soren, I imagine -- is a matter of inspecting 1) how Soren understands him to be, and how that might differ from reality, 2) how Ike acts around Soren, and how that might differ from his interactions with other people, and 3) a basic understanding of his interests and disposition otherwise. (Basic understanding of how people act like people would help out 80% of badfic writers, I think.)

I do not think that Ike is inherently impossible to build a good model for, but such has not strongly fallen within the range of my personal interests, and I cannot think of anyone who has taken a strong interest in Ike (regardless of his or her pairing preferences) who has analyzed him well.

Ahaha, and you might see this reflected in the fact that many of my recs are Soren-sympathetic. As shocking as it may seem, once you get to the higher end of things, fandom will get Soren right more often than Ike.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Isn't that true about almost anything you pick from the slush pile?

Once you've already selected for a) title and summary b) basic grammar and spelling of 'fic c) not a self-insert or something else obnoxious d) apparent maturity level of the author and e) that the author shows at least a passing familiarity with canon, I'd say not.

FE fandom does not and never has offered me a wide array of what I'm actually looking for, so I've always had to branch out and try things from the slush pile, and the results have been surprisingly positive.

And with disappointing stories from other poles of the fandom-- I'm thinking of a host of competently-written Elibe stories that were not quite right-- the problem seemed to me to be that the authors loved the characters too much. With Ike/Soren stories... my overall impression was of a sort of chilliness, an almost clinical quality.

I really do think, however, that for the non-shipper there exists a stigma against trying out Ike/Soren fic.

That may be, but I've certainly tried a good deal of it. [I was actually biased toward Ike/Soren at first because they eerily matched with a pair of my own (male) original characters. I was TICKLED to have such a thing available to me via media. So my dislike of most of the fanfic I've read is colored by no small amount of disappointment that I did NOT like it.]

I do not know you personally well enough to pick out the most poignant example for you, but surely you have had pairings you think are fascinating with characters you could give or take. Or, perhaps you have some characters you like quite a lot, but you find the idea of a romantic relationship between them to destroy the integrity of both.

Definitely true on the second count... I suppose I could come up with an example of the former if I thought about it for a while.

But if Soren's relationship with Ike is such a core component of his character, and I can't get a handle on what Ike actually is and what he's supposed to be, my interest in Soren's concerns is going to take a nose-dive. Now, a really skilled writer could pull off an engaging story dealing with that first point of yours-- how Soren understands Ike to be and how that might differ from reality. And if you have a rec geared along those lines, pass it along.

Basic understanding of how people act like people would help out 80% of badfic writers, I think.

This is absolutely true.

As shocking as it may seem, once you get to the higher end of things, fandom will get Soren right more often than Ike.

And I'm willing to believe this is true, also.

[r-amythest.livejournal.com]

I'm intrigued that you found them chilly. Now I must wonder what pieces you are referring to. But perhaps I shouldn't find out, because I will probably have seen them before and I will probably be cattier than I should in public about them.

Now, a really skilled writer could pull off an engaging story dealing with that first point of yours-- how Soren understands Ike to be and how that might differ from reality. And if you have a rec geared along those lines, pass it along.

I sort of addressed that in one of the fics of mine I told you not to read. Because it was failtastic on several other counts. (It was a year and a half ago, and it was NaNo, and my thoughts toward it oscillate wildly. Especially since the best portions in my opinion are the parts in which Ike is physically not present.)

But in any case, I think that if a story tells an Ike/Soren tale from Soren's perspective, Soren's "concerns" regarding Ike are just that -- Soren's concerns. I agree wholeheartedly that Soren's perception of Ike and attitudes toward him are a significant part of his character, but ultimately if we're sympathizing with Soren's perspective, and we understand Soren's perspective, it is only necessary to understand reality where it does not mesh well with his perspective.

And Soren's model of Ike, while simplified tremendously, works pretty well in anything short of an Ike character study.

I'm trying to think of a way to phrase this in which I didn't already. I suppose it's something like this: Ike's thoughts on the relocation of Hatari will not affect an Ike/Soren fic that does not specifically address the relocation of Hatari. Likewise, if we we are not introducing new characters, we need not know how Ike would hypothetically react to them. For characters we have in canon, we would also not need a Universal Model of Ike to postulate their relationship because canon provides. (Yes, this does suggest that you should have a working Universal Model of Ike if you wanted to pull off a radical what-if-canon-were-hideously-warped AU. In theory you should have a working Model of Everyone, but, well, feasibility....) On the other hand, if Ike were secretly repressing a strong streak of selfishness, this would definitely matter -- but it would fall outside of Soren's model of reality and therefore be one of the points I suggested that an Ike/Soren writer be aware of.

[r-amythest.livejournal.com]

Okay, I just thought of a metaphor.

Ike is like Physics.

With the corpus we're given, his actions can be relatively well-modeled. A velocity in a moving frame is perceived by the lab frame as the sum of the velocities, quoth Galileo. Throw a ball at 10 mph in a car at 60 mph and the person on the sidewalk perceives it going at 70 mph.

Roughly.

No one can tell the difference at those speeds.

Unfortunately this simple model breaks down at extremes, those being those at near-light speeds. That's where Einstein comes in. He thought about it at the extreme. He decided that the Galilean prediction didn't make sense. He came up with the model of relativity, which is correct about matters like the addition of velocity at near-light speeds, not to mention a whole lot of other junk.

Relativity matters if we're designing iPods, studying distant galaxies, or messing with theoretical physics. It doesn't matter when you're walking down the sidewalk, engaging in a high-speed car chase, or even landing someone on the moon.

Likewise. If you ask how Ike would be if he came out of a prison after five years of torture, I have no good answer. My model cannot account for something so outside of the range of the norm. However, ask about his reaction to Soren in a given situation, or how a more mild twist affects his character, and I can provide something well enough like Ike that the difference is near-negligible. (Or at least I hope my model is up to this standard.) As far as writing Ike/Soren fic goes, it works pretty well.

Landing people on the moon is pretty impressive.

(Incidentally: I have confidence in my abilities to predict Soren's reaction to the prison situation but you'd have to specify the type of torture involved and the conditions of his rehabilitation or lack thereof.)

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Ike is like Physics

Heh. I'm an astronomer, so I grok the relativity metaphor. Yes, that works for me.

However, ask about his reaction to Soren in a given situation, or how a more mild twist affects his character, and I can provide something well enough like Ike that the difference is near-negligible.

That's an interesting and plausible way of looking at it.

Incidentally: I have confidence in my abilities to predict Soren's reaction to the prison situation but you'd have to specify the type of torture involved and the conditions of his rehabilitation or lack thereof.

HEH!

[r-amythest.livejournal.com]

Oh? I'm surprised. I thought you were a history major gone pro writer for some reason.

-- Admittedly my confidence regarding Soren at the extremes is possibly misplaced, but at least I think I have a good idea. :P I have evidence for the factors that influence my judgment, but naturally, it is a distant extrapolation upon canon and thus open to interpretation.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

I thought you were a history major gone pro writer for some reason.

Pro writer? Heh. No, but I guess I'm flattered.

I'm just a history geek with a cube-farm job in the energy sector during the day and an astronomy gig (speaking engagements and such) after hours.