When Bad Fanfic Happens to Good Characters, Part II

[mark_asphodel]

 Part Two: When Pairings Eat A Fandom

I missed a key development in the Tellius fandom-- the release of FE10 and the havoc it wrought-- because I was at that time lazing around in the SSB fandom.  My main points of contact with actual Fire Emblem fans during that time were the incursions of butthurt Roy fans and batshit insane Lyn fans, none of whom were really good ambassadors for the FE community.  (Long story short: if you think Lyn "deserved" to be in SSB:B as something "better than" an assist trophy, OK.  You think Marth should've been cut to make room for her, GFY and you need a history lesson.)

Not that the post-FE10 Ike/Soren wank didn't hit SSB:B fandom.  There was lots of handwringing and denial and flaming, not least because a lot of players and writers seem to have blissfully assumed that the Nintendo gods had, with Ike's inclusion, finally given them a straight (read: manly) rep from Fire Emblem to play with.  So the question of Soren-or-Ranulf went down like shards of broken glass.  I was mostly confused; I figured the initial reports of Ike's FE10 ending were lies, simply because I'd seen lies and hoaxes of that nature so many times across various fandoms.  Also, my spotty knowledge of FE9 led me to believe that Ike/Elincia was where things were going, because, again-- it's Fire Emblem, and that's how the games always go, right?

[SSB:B fandom also had some vocal Ike/Lethe fans to add to the confusion.]

By the time I meandered back into actual FE fandom toward the beginning of 2009, Ike/Soren was well past the point of controversy (obviously some people are still spazzing out over it in various communities, but COME ON NOW.)  And it was everywhere.

And it was mostly terrible.  I swear that I've seen Soren written better in a handful of SSB-themed stories wherein he was his actual prickly, snarky, unsociable self.  I haven't finished FE9, but any amount of contact with canon!Soren puts the lie to his standard 'fic portrayal.  Hell, flipping through the game manual indicates that something is amiss with fanfic!Soren.  I read a lot of Ike/Soren for a while because I was interested in what the depiction of a canon-approved m/m pairing would look like via fandom, and to my chagrin it was the same garbage as any other yaoi pairing: manly!seme, weepy!uke.  Same worn-out tropes as used by Harry Potter fans, or Gundam Wing fans, or any other fanbase obsessed with pairing pretty boys.

Given I like canon!Soren, this was painful.  Still is.  

Ike/Soren turned into a hot-button issue for the fandom, as demonstrated by the wank that even mentioning it will net you on emblanon  and elsewhere.  Some of this may be because it's two dudes together.  Some of it may be because it's just so popular.  But I don't think the reaction would be quite as extreme if so many of the stories weren't hack jobs composed of anime cliches and terrible characterizations, with or without random fangirl Japanese thrown in.  I get the impression that Tellius writers who aren't on the Ike/Soren bandwagon feel overshadowed, or at the very least outnumbered, by I/S and its attendant wank, and I can't blame them.  Maybe it'll pass in time, the way the era of bad Kent/Sain stories faded, but here we are in 2011, so who knows?

I guess the real question is, why do people who have presumably played the games write Soren in this way?  Did they just see some fanart over at DA and decide to 'fic it?  Are they just focusing on a couple of emotional moments in the games (which, as I understand it, are important because they are NOT the norm) and discarding all the rest of it?  Or is it another closed circle, a feedback loop wherein writers are basing their entire perception of a character or pairing on the way it's done in other fanfics?  I suspect the last comes heavily into play.

The other question is, why does nobody care about poor Ranulf?

Stay tuned if you like for Part III: Canon, What Canon?  In the meantime, recs for good Ike/Soren stories are appreciated, and feel free to pimp your own.

Comments

[raphiael]

You think Marth should've been cut to make room for her, GFY and you need a history lesson.
Hey, you know, while we're at it, I think it'd be awesome to have Shy Guy playable. Let's cut Mario!
Really, what.

I think a lot of it is just the slash mentality. There's a big difference between writing a real homosexual relationship and writing what most fans see "slash" as being. I derped about it somewhere re:Raven/Lucius, too. Instead of being true to the characters and the situations, writers mush one into the stereotypical "female" role and the other into an exaggerated "male" role - almost always based on who is smaller/prettier/more woobie. I think it's more a sign of ignorance than anything else. Doing that, to me, and putting that emphasis on who sticks what where, it doesn't say you love the couple, or the characters, or even that you're okay with gay people in general. It says you're a lazy writer who'd rather swap a couple names in the cliche BL manga and call it a day than actually spend some time thinking about the characters you supposedly love enough to write about.

I think it creates a stigma, too - like you mentioned, the inevitable haaaate that comes with Ike/Soren. I don't see it yet, but if I do? I'm not sure I can like it without being affected by the terrible, terrible stuff out there and feeling less comfortable with it.

[raphiael]

Oh, and r_amethyst has some good AU Ike/Soren going on, if I remember correctly.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Hey, you know, while we're at it, I think it'd be awesome to have Shy Guy playable. Let's cut Mario!

It was not a good time to be a Marth fan in SSB-land. In between the Roy crazies and the Lyn crazies... well, it never made any sense. One, Marth starred in the best-selling FE game ever. Two, Marth's popularity because of this is the only reason there was FE content in Melee to begin with (and Roy was included after the fact as an advertisement for FE6). Three, Marth was AWESOME in Melee. Four, because Marth and Roy won people over internationally by being cute and interesting and awesome, FE7 got an international release and fans got to meet their precious Lyn.

So, yeah. Dropping Marth to include Lyn or Hector or Ephraim or Micaiah or SIGURD (whut?) in his stead just wasn't on the cards. But the haaaaaaaate circa late '07 and early '08 was a thing to behold.

Cemented my view that FE fans were dicks, I'll tell you.

[Personal view-- if they did have a third FE rep in SSB, it should've been Ephraim or Hector, because the game has enough sword users. And Micaiah in practice might've just been another Zelda.]

or even that you're okay with gay people in general.

I doubt most of these writers can ever have spent time around a gay couple.

The thing is, some series play to that sort of BL stereotype. They GIVE you the manly seme and the precious woobie uke. But to take Soren and force him into it... ARGH.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Oh, hey, SHE did "I Have a Girlfriend In Begnion." That was good. Yeah, I'll check these out.

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

I'd blame the FE10 support with Soren crying for all the bad seme/uke!Ike/Soren out there, but people were writing it that way before FE10 even came OUT.

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

the incursions of butthurt Roy fans and batshit insane Lyn fans, none of whom were really good ambassadors for the FE community. (Long story short: if you think Lyn "deserved" to be in SSB:B as something "better than" an assist trophy, OK. You think Marth should've been cut to make room for her, GFY and you need a history lesson.)
I was bitter towards Ike because Roy got cut, but I was pissed off because Roy was my main in Melee, so I'd have to use a new character in Brawl. Yes, Marth and Roy are clones, but there are a lot of differences between the two. Roy's aerials are fail, for example, and he feels heavier than Marth does. And I thought it'd be cool to have Lyn there as more than an assist because hey, there needs to be more female characters in Smash Brothers. But I absolutely loved Marth and that has nothing to do with loving his seiyuu I swear, was excited and happy beyond belief when I found out he was in Brawl via leaked Brawl openings when it came out in Japan and we had to wait a month or whatever.

Also, you know, Marth was the first Fire Emblem lord ever. If it weren't for Marth, there would've been no Fire Emblem, full stop. And he's fucking badass.

It'd be kinda like saying, oh, I want a playable redead, let's cut Link! In the grand scheme of things, Lyn's not really all that important compared to Marth or Ike. Yeah, she was (one of the) lords in the first American FE, but then Eliwood and Hector should be in Brawl too using that logic. Marth started Fire Emblem and Ike was in the first 3D one. (And they didn't have to hunt for voices for them either--Marth had an anime and Ike's had voice acting to begin with.)

I have to admit that the whole Ike/Soren thing has turned me off of FE9/10, mostly because it's like, THE pairing of the fandom. I ship Ike/Janaff. Where the hell do I go? It's like shipping het in Weiss Kreuz fandom, or not liking 1x2. At least the last one was Jossed. Ike/Soren is pretty much canon and it's everywhere.

[raphiael]

Yeah, really. Plus, y'know, being the original hero and all that. Swapping him out for a character in a game that's, in all honesty, less noteworthy? Especially when Shadow Dragon was undoubtedly kept in mind? What. That's just dumb. (I've mained Marth-in-black, AKA Darth Marth, for ages, so I'm a wee bit biased there, but yeah.)

And I can't say I'd have a real choice for a third, just because the idea of Marth and Ephraim kicking the crap out of each other is amusing like nothing else. Heh.

BUT ZOMG SOREN HAS LONG HAIR AND MESSED UP BACKSTORY, AND IKE HAS MUSCLES, IT'S ALL RIGHT THERE!!

Yeah, I really doubt it, myself. And it is a shame. I really like Soren so far; he's just delightfully ornery. But if he were some crying uke? I'd hate him.

[wolfraven80.livejournal.com]

Same worn-out tropes as used by Harry Potter fans, or Gundam Wing fans, or any other fanbase obsessed with pairing pretty boys.

That's probably because it's the same fans writing the fics. In fact, I came from the Harry Potter fandom, though I didn't write fic for it -- there was no need with so much readily available, and I was very shy at the time (this would have been way back in 2003). Also, I read het fics, not slash, though I promise you it was as active and crazed a segment of fandom as any other.

I have a lot of similar reservations about slash fic. Most of the time one of the characters is turned into a girl. Also they tend to represent a female fantasy about male character and relationships and oftentimes these fantasies come at the expense of characterization. Of course that can happen with het fic as well, for example bad boy fics where a villain or unpleasant character is miraculously converted into a caring, thoughtful man by the power of lurrrv.

We all have our little quirks that draw us to read and/or write certain kinds of stories. What bothers me is when characterization is sacrificed in order to fit characters into a desired mold. But then it's fandom and there's always going to be a lot of badfic out there no matter what sort of story one looks for.

[raphiael]

and that has nothing to do with loving his seiyuu I swear
y-you and me both.
Why do I not have a Mikage icon? Pffft have Judas instead.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

though I promise you it was as active and crazed a segment of fandom as any other.

Actually, Part III is going to touch upon a subset of HP fandom that remains frothing crazy years after the release of Deathly Hallows.

Of course that can happen with het fic as well, for example bad boy fics where a villain or unpleasant character is miraculously converted into a caring, thoughtful man by the power of lurrrv.

Indeed. Though I see that more in book fandom (HP, again) than anime/manga fandom.

there's always going to be a lot of badfic out there no matter what sort of story one looks for.

The puzzle, to me, is not so much "why badfic?" as "why do certain types of badfic dominate a fandom?" And why does the downward spiral feel so depressingly familiar in so many cases?

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's kind of what I gathered. -_-

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Roy's aerials are fail, for example

Some dude on GameFaqs wrote a six-part manifesto for why Roy "deserved" to be in Brawl, all based off FE6 canon, and I wish that I'd saved it. But the issue with Roy is, it doesn't matter if he led the Lycian Alliance Army at age fifteen or whatever. Every Lord in Fire Emblem has that kind of Specialness on his/her resume. It matters that the sweet spot of his sword was too far down the blade and his aerials were fail. Adios, Roy. Time to pimp the newcomer's games.

Lyn's not really all that important compared to Marth or Ike.

Shh. Her crazy fans might hear you.

Really, in between the Roy's Mom Wank and the Assist Trophy Wank... Lyn's fans caused more headaches than anyone else's, at least from what I saw.

[Present company on the f-list excepted. If y'all were the batshit people who were trolling SSB communities, you've hidden it well.]

And they didn't have to hunt for voices for them either

Oh, god, Lyn's VA was awful. AWFUL.

I ship Ike/Janaff. Where the hell do I go?

Uh... that's really uncommon, yeah.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

I'm a wee bit biased there

Heh. My main for Brawl is Goggles Pikachu. My favorite of Marth's alt costumes is the pretty aqua FE3-inspired one. As for Ike, I love that blue-and-white outfit that allegedly is meant to evoke Sigurd.

the idea of Marth and Ephraim kicking the crap out of each other is amusing like nothing else.

I lean towards Hector, because yeah, FE7 was Very Important to the worldwide fanbase and an axe user would be cool. But he'd be another slow heavy dude, I'm sure, whereas Ephraim might add a little diversity to the gameplay-- not a lightweight, not slow as molasses. And his reach with Siegmund could really be phenomenal.

And yeah, Eph and Marth having a knockdown, drag-out fight in 3D would be funny as hell.

[thenicochan.livejournal.com]

As a huge Tellius, and Ike/Soren, fan it does bug me how 80% of the fandom focuses on their unrealistic depictions of Ike/Soren, while the other 20% hate it with the unbridled passion of a thousand burning suns.Rarely, does it seem there is a middle ground.

Of my personal opinion (One I've made note of a number of times in my journal, including my post comparing Ike/Soren to Nick/Ellis from Left 4 Dead, that I believe you commented on) Ike/Soren is a interesting, and complex, pairing, that is unfortunately left to become "Kawaii uke desu" in the hands of the writers who are just doing it wrong. It's the same reason I dislike most BL things. Like Gravitation, where the entire story relies on those awful stereotypes that are, honestly, mildly offensive.

Oh, yeah, but I like Ike/Ranulf about as much as Ike/Soren. They're cute together, but they are also both masculine- so that kinda ruins the fangirls dreams of having Ike comfort a beautiful young woman man, and drying his pained tears of painful pain.

Ike/Ranulf seems to be more popular in Japan, at least. If we're going by the fanart.

[samuraiter.livejournal.com]

Why is Ranulf not the big choice in the U.S.? My theory: The earflaps. *sage nod* Joshua may be proof that a cool hat is a big help, but a not-so-cool hat can have the opposite effect.

I dislike canon Soren because he is ... himself. Abrasive, blunt, rude, and unsmiling. Now, I enjoy using him in the game, since he is powerful, and I can see why he and Ike might become close, but the fan interpretations of him are ... yikes. (Me? Ike / Mia, thus far, since Elincia strikes me as too much of a wet blanket where I am in the game.) Nothing against the pairing itself, since, IMO, there is room for all kinds, but it has gotten out of control. A more recent incarnation of Trowa / Quatre, perhaps?

Hmm. This discussion is making me appreciate how things have developed on the Archanea end. We don't really have buggery like this.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

They're cute together, but they are also both masculine- so that kinda ruins the fangirls dreams of having Ike comfort a beautiful young woman man, and drying his pained tears of painful pain.

Yeah, that's my working assumption on it, too. Sigh. You'd think a catboy with heterochromatic eyes would score more fans than he does. I mean, fangirls love slapping ears and tails on their yaoi bait, and Ranulf comes with the package!

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

The hat is unsexy, I do admit.

A more recent incarnation of Trowa / Quatre, perhaps?

Without the flame wars over the "need" for Ike to be uke because OMG all mercenaries abuse little boys.

Hmm. Crossover time!

We don't really have buggery like this.

I suspect that there are people who are Not Happy with with prevailing direction of Archanea stories. At least, I've had enough dissonant moments in the course of review replies and PMs that indicate that certain fan-itches are not being scratched.

"I love Navarre!" -- I don't.

"I really like Nyna and Camus!"-- Have some jacked-up Marth/Nyna instead.

"Lena and Julian are my favorites!"-- Uh, maybe kittykatloren can help you?

"I can't get enough of fluffy Marth/Sheeda romance!"-- Boy, are you ever SOL.

But until they show up en masse with pitchforks, I'm not going to worry about them.

[myaru.livejournal.com]

I'm one of those Tellius fans that started out liking Ike/Soren and gradually grew to hate it as I read more fic, mainly because of the mis-characterization of Soren. AU, canon, it doesn't matter - the sarcastic, badass tactician suddenly becomes a stereotypical weepy girl, and his intelligence ceases to exist in fanon. There are a few writers I like, though. The pairing is still attractive to me in theory, but I avoid writers I don't know, that haven't been recommended to me.

However, I don't feel hostile toward the pairing; I don't feel it has overshadowed my interests. That's silly. There's plenty of love and fanwork for all of the Mercenaries. If anything, Crimea overshadows everyone else on Tellius; it's when you want Begnion, Daein, Gallia, or Goldoa that you have nothing to read. Never mind Hatari.

Or is it another closed circle, a feedback loop wherein writers are basing their entire perception of a character or pairing on the way it's done in other fanfics?

Yes. In many cases it seems that writers will even draw on their own previous fics to write the same thing, and thus loop in on themselves. Not all of them do it, but some just write the same thing over and over. I'm sure it appeals if you're in love with the pairing, but it may not endear new readers.

[samuraiter.livejournal.com]

I did not think enough Archanea stories existed for there to be anything resembling a prevailing direction, but I might be wrong.

– Navarre might be the original, but he is no Karel, IMO.
– Nyna and Camus are canonically doomed.
– I enjoy Lena / Julian, but they are not at OTP level.
– Fluff? Caeda and Marth? LOL, no.

I suspect that I must continue to inflict crack on Archanea. >:-) The canon is simple enough that I rather enjoy screwing it up.

[shining-valor.livejournal.com]

So feedback loops are like cancer... they distort the truth of the matter and continually warp things until they are unrecognizable from the original cell and rabid to boot.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

Okay, I will read comments later because I have too much to say that I don't want to forget instantly.

1.) I actually ship Ike/Soren. Don't shoot. I know this is a shock to anyone reading this because I haven't made it like, amazingly public knowledge. I see where it comes from. I don't ship it the way others ship it, but I ship it. But we're not really talking about that, I just wanted to say that.

2.) I was very excited that Lyn was an assist trophy. First thing I did was do the practice mode thing and throw trophies until I got her. I AM SUCH A NERD. HAHAHA. But seriously. That she made it into the game at ALL was amazing to me. FE7 was not very well known and still isn't. And it doesn't have shiny graphics. I'd have been stoked if she DID make it into the game as a playable-- I mean, definitely!-- but I was cool with the fact she made it there at all. I'd still be playing Smash if she was a playable. Though my main was always Pikachu.

3.) I still feel guilty that I puked all over the Ike + Soren controversy mentally. I hated the pairing and the games without ever playing them SOLELY because of the crappy fanfiction. That sounds horrible. But it was literally a huge chunk of the fandom at the time. And anything that said Ike/Soren, or even MENTIONED Soren made me cringe.

4.) Obviously having played the games now. Just look at Soren's official art. DOES HE LOOK WEEPY?!

5.) I think they get the uke!!Soren thing from his A support with Ike.

6.) I mean, I warped some characterization with writing KentLyn after writing it for a couple of years without really looking at game script. I kind of fell into headcanon land? Which is a bad place. But!! I didn't even do as badly as some did to Soren. And Soren's a jackass through the entire script. C'mon. He had one period of time where he admitted something and was upset. This does not make him a weepy uke whatever. Sadness. I can't defend the morons who wrote him really badly because...I don't know where they got him being like that regularly. It happened once in canon. WTF.

7.) I think perhaps new fandomgoes kind of based their Sorens off of some of the others. I can't blame them, sorta? If you're new to fandom you might feel that your perception of canon!Soren is wrong due to how others are portraying him.

8.) I LOVE RANULF OKAY. He's so cute and fun. One of the coolest personalities in the game! I doubt I'd be good at writing him, though. But someday. I will write Ranulf fic. And Lethe fic. Neither get much love. Actually laguz in general don't get much love... except the bird tribes, but mostly because Myaru takes the time to love them. :/ Hm.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

/brofist for Pikachu!

Also, my favorite Marth costume is the white and/or black one. Uhm. *is weird*

[hooves.livejournal.com]

Every Lord in Fire Emblem has that kind of Specialness

...So true.

But now that you have said this. Having a fighting game with most/all the FE characters would be the coolest thing ever. That will never happen. But I would buy it so fast.

Edit because I hit submit too fast! Lyn's VA was horrible, I agree. I was so disappointed with that. She sounded ...just all wrong. But I guess I was pleased she didn't sound like a squeaky anime girl. So I can't complain.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

"why do certain types of badfic dominate a fandom?"

I wish I could answer that. Or that I even knew the whole answer.

I guess something is popular because it fills a gap. For example, the only manly-looking/acting dude + long-haired girly-looking man pairing in FE? Was really Raven/Lucius. And it was popular and done really badly for a while.

Ike/Soren was done in a game where it was pretty much easily picked up on as a canon possibility-- especially when 10 came out. (Which I see, now.)

So it's the Seth/Eirika of Tellius, I guess. Except it's two men. And fandom, who mostly comes from fandoms like Harry Potter and animuuuuu~~~ (/sarcasm), only knows stereotypes.

This is why slash has always bothered me. "ALL FOR TEH YAOI!!!1" is annoying. It'd be like announcing to the world how great het is. Uhm. Meaningful relationships are great. Shoving two characters together because they're hot or you wanna see A top B (and being 110% serious about it) is stupid. Period. We're open for crack and I don't mind off-the-wall pairings at all. But a lot of shippers-- and I mean people who literally and seriously ship pairings and announce it and wave banners and sail ships-- have no basis behind why they like what they like. I don't care if it's POLITICAL INTRIGUE. It should be SOMETHING.

That and I think most slash fandom is kind of insulting to gay people? IDK. I'm not gay. But if I was a gay guy, I'd probably be like :/ Wow, these people are writing nonexistent fantasy. It's like a lot of smut out there? It's totally fantasy. Just because it sounds good on paper doesn't mean it makes any sense In the Real World. :| It's kind of like when people talk about how hot Asian chicks are. If I was an Asian chick, I'd tell them to get a fucking life. That's creepy. I feel it's kinda wrong to put any group of people into a labeled box like that. Or to assume anything about a person just because they're [homosexual, heterosexual, transsexual, blahblah whatever here].

I mean, obviously we all have kinks/things we like. (Men in uniform, anyone?! Or hell, women in uniforms are sexy too!) But IDK. Not everyone in uniform is sexy. Not all Asian chicks are hot. Not all gay guys are feminine, and not all gay women are manly. C'mon. SERIOUSLY, FANDOM. With all the homosexuals in fandom, I don't see why more people don't realize this? IDK maybe I'm kinda like...confused about this whole thing. I have no idea why people write such animu~~~ stereotypical bad-smut-esque slash fic. Aren't the character interactions the exciting part? And if Soren isn't SOREN. Then Ike/Soren sucks.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

Like Gravitation, where the entire story relies on those awful stereotypes that are, honestly, mildly offensive.

...Hahahaha. Yeah, no lie. I saw an "abridged" piece of that. Now, even with that the ACTIONS going on? Made me go AHH NOT MORE OF THIS UNREALISTIC SHIT AGAIN.

Poor Ike. Poor Soren. :(

Ranulf is the coolest dude ever. By the way. Just saying.