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mark_asphodel Part Two: When Pairings Eat A Fandom
I missed a key development in the Tellius fandom-- the release of FE10 and the havoc it wrought-- because I was at that time lazing around in the SSB fandom. My main points of contact with actual Fire Emblem fans during that time were the incursions of butthurt Roy fans and batshit insane Lyn fans, none of whom were really good ambassadors for the FE community. (Long story short: if you think Lyn "deserved" to be in SSB:B as something "better than" an assist trophy, OK. You think Marth should've been cut to make room for her, GFY and you need a history lesson.)
Not that the post-FE10 Ike/Soren wank didn't hit SSB:B fandom. There was lots of handwringing and denial and flaming, not least because a lot of players and writers seem to have blissfully assumed that the Nintendo gods had, with Ike's inclusion, finally given them a straight (read: manly) rep from Fire Emblem to play with. So the question of Soren-or-Ranulf went down like shards of broken glass. I was mostly confused; I figured the initial reports of Ike's FE10 ending were lies, simply because I'd seen lies and hoaxes of that nature so many times across various fandoms. Also, my spotty knowledge of FE9 led me to believe that Ike/Elincia was where things were going, because, again-- it's Fire Emblem, and that's how the games always go, right?
[SSB:B fandom also had some vocal Ike/Lethe fans to add to the confusion.]
By the time I meandered back into actual FE fandom toward the beginning of 2009, Ike/Soren was well past the point of controversy (obviously some people are still spazzing out over it in various communities, but COME ON NOW.) And it was everywhere.
And it was mostly terrible. I swear that I've seen Soren written better in a handful of SSB-themed stories wherein he was his actual prickly, snarky, unsociable self. I haven't finished FE9, but any amount of contact with canon!Soren puts the lie to his standard 'fic portrayal. Hell, flipping through the game manual indicates that something is amiss with fanfic!Soren. I read a lot of Ike/Soren for a while because I was interested in what the depiction of a canon-approved m/m pairing would look like via fandom, and to my chagrin it was the same garbage as any other yaoi pairing: manly!seme, weepy!uke. Same worn-out tropes as used by Harry Potter fans, or Gundam Wing fans, or any other fanbase obsessed with pairing pretty boys.
Given I like canon!Soren, this was painful. Still is.
Ike/Soren turned into a hot-button issue for the fandom, as demonstrated by the wank that even mentioning it will net you on![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
emblanon and elsewhere. Some of this may be because it's two dudes together. Some of it may be because it's just so popular. But I don't think the reaction would be quite as extreme if so many of the stories weren't hack jobs composed of anime cliches and terrible characterizations, with or without random fangirl Japanese thrown in. I get the impression that Tellius writers who aren't on the Ike/Soren bandwagon feel overshadowed, or at the very least outnumbered, by I/S and its attendant wank, and I can't blame them. Maybe it'll pass in time, the way the era of bad Kent/Sain stories faded, but here we are in 2011, so who knows?
I guess the real question is, why do people who have presumably played the games write Soren in this way? Did they just see some fanart over at DA and decide to 'fic it? Are they just focusing on a couple of emotional moments in the games (which, as I understand it, are important because they are NOT the norm) and discarding all the rest of it? Or is it another closed circle, a feedback loop wherein writers are basing their entire perception of a character or pairing on the way it's done in other fanfics? I suspect the last comes heavily into play.
The other question is, why does nobody care about poor Ranulf?
Stay tuned if you like for Part III: Canon, What Canon? In the meantime, recs for good Ike/Soren stories are appreciated, and feel free to pimp your own.
I missed a key development in the Tellius fandom-- the release of FE10 and the havoc it wrought-- because I was at that time lazing around in the SSB fandom. My main points of contact with actual Fire Emblem fans during that time were the incursions of butthurt Roy fans and batshit insane Lyn fans, none of whom were really good ambassadors for the FE community. (Long story short: if you think Lyn "deserved" to be in SSB:B as something "better than" an assist trophy, OK. You think Marth should've been cut to make room for her, GFY and you need a history lesson.)
Not that the post-FE10 Ike/Soren wank didn't hit SSB:B fandom. There was lots of handwringing and denial and flaming, not least because a lot of players and writers seem to have blissfully assumed that the Nintendo gods had, with Ike's inclusion, finally given them a straight (read: manly) rep from Fire Emblem to play with. So the question of Soren-or-Ranulf went down like shards of broken glass. I was mostly confused; I figured the initial reports of Ike's FE10 ending were lies, simply because I'd seen lies and hoaxes of that nature so many times across various fandoms. Also, my spotty knowledge of FE9 led me to believe that Ike/Elincia was where things were going, because, again-- it's Fire Emblem, and that's how the games always go, right?
[SSB:B fandom also had some vocal Ike/Lethe fans to add to the confusion.]
By the time I meandered back into actual FE fandom toward the beginning of 2009, Ike/Soren was well past the point of controversy (obviously some people are still spazzing out over it in various communities, but COME ON NOW.) And it was everywhere.
And it was mostly terrible. I swear that I've seen Soren written better in a handful of SSB-themed stories wherein he was his actual prickly, snarky, unsociable self. I haven't finished FE9, but any amount of contact with canon!Soren puts the lie to his standard 'fic portrayal. Hell, flipping through the game manual indicates that something is amiss with fanfic!Soren. I read a lot of Ike/Soren for a while because I was interested in what the depiction of a canon-approved m/m pairing would look like via fandom, and to my chagrin it was the same garbage as any other yaoi pairing: manly!seme, weepy!uke. Same worn-out tropes as used by Harry Potter fans, or Gundam Wing fans, or any other fanbase obsessed with pairing pretty boys.
Given I like canon!Soren, this was painful. Still is.
Ike/Soren turned into a hot-button issue for the fandom, as demonstrated by the wank that even mentioning it will net you on
emblanon and elsewhere. Some of this may be because it's two dudes together. Some of it may be because it's just so popular. But I don't think the reaction would be quite as extreme if so many of the stories weren't hack jobs composed of anime cliches and terrible characterizations, with or without random fangirl Japanese thrown in. I get the impression that Tellius writers who aren't on the Ike/Soren bandwagon feel overshadowed, or at the very least outnumbered, by I/S and its attendant wank, and I can't blame them. Maybe it'll pass in time, the way the era of bad Kent/Sain stories faded, but here we are in 2011, so who knows?I guess the real question is, why do people who have presumably played the games write Soren in this way? Did they just see some fanart over at DA and decide to 'fic it? Are they just focusing on a couple of emotional moments in the games (which, as I understand it, are important because they are NOT the norm) and discarding all the rest of it? Or is it another closed circle, a feedback loop wherein writers are basing their entire perception of a character or pairing on the way it's done in other fanfics? I suspect the last comes heavily into play.
The other question is, why does nobody care about poor Ranulf?
Stay tuned if you like for Part III: Canon, What Canon? In the meantime, recs for good Ike/Soren stories are appreciated, and feel free to pimp your own.
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no subject
Date: 2011-01-30 06:12 pm (UTC)I dislike canon Soren because he is ... himself. Abrasive, blunt, rude, and unsmiling. Now, I enjoy using him in the game, since he is powerful, and I can see why he and Ike might become close, but the fan interpretations of him are ... yikes. (Me? Ike / Mia, thus far, since Elincia strikes me as too much of a wet blanket where I am in the game.) Nothing against the pairing itself, since, IMO, there is room for all kinds, but it has gotten out of control. A more recent incarnation of Trowa / Quatre, perhaps?
Hmm. This discussion is making me appreciate how things have developed on the Archanea end. We don't really have buggery like this.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-30 06:26 pm (UTC)A more recent incarnation of Trowa / Quatre, perhaps?
Without the flame wars over the "need" for Ike to be uke because OMG all mercenaries abuse little boys.
Hmm. Crossover time!
We don't really have buggery like this.
I suspect that there are people who are Not Happy with with prevailing direction of Archanea stories. At least, I've had enough dissonant moments in the course of review replies and PMs that indicate that certain fan-itches are not being scratched.
"I love Navarre!" -- I don't.
"I really like Nyna and Camus!"-- Have some jacked-up Marth/Nyna instead.
"Lena and Julian are my favorites!"-- Uh, maybe kittykatloren can help you?
"I can't get enough of fluffy Marth/Sheeda romance!"-- Boy, are you ever SOL.
But until they show up en masse with pitchforks, I'm not going to worry about them.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-30 06:34 pm (UTC)– Navarre might be the original, but he is no Karel, IMO.
– Nyna and Camus are canonically doomed.
– I enjoy Lena / Julian, but they are not at OTP level.
– Fluff? Caeda and Marth? LOL, no.
I suspect that I must continue to inflict crack on Archanea. >:-) The canon is simple enough that I rather enjoy screwing it up.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-30 09:01 pm (UTC)I was not impressed by Navarre. At. All. :|
Jacked up Marth/Nyna cracks me up. Actually I like your jacked-up stuff. You write it so well. Plus it fits.
Lena and Julian didn't really get me, either. They're cute I guess?
Frey was cooler.Fluff. L. O. L. I would write that crap but. You know any fluff that happens between them can't really like...be much of anything. If that makes any sense. Maybe a moment here and there? But just a moment. Hmmm.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-30 11:37 pm (UTC)Yeah, that's kinda how I see it. Marth/Sheeda falls in between "doom and gloom serious business" and "happy fluff". They clearly love each other, but the circumstances surrounding them and Marth's issues just...can't be ignored. They can have their moments, but most of the time...hey, they're in the middle of a war and Akaneia is a fucking mess. :(
Unless a fic is set pre-canon. You know, before Marth's life went to hell in a handbasket.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-31 12:57 am (UTC)I'm not convinced they ever laid eyes on one another before then. Travel in Archanea seems to be pretty rare unless your name is George (almost none of the royal heirs seem to know one another), and Marth's reaction to being told they're going to Talys just doesn't indicate any familiarity with the place. Certainly there's no sense of "Oh, yay, at least I get to see Caeda again."
Though it really could be a cute 'fic in the right hands.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-31 12:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-31 01:06 am (UTC)I hear the "childhood friend" thing a lot, too, but I've yet to see any evidence for it. Alm/Cellica, Leaf/Nanna, and Celice/Rana all WERE raised together, so it would fit the pattern if they did, but I don't quite see it.
[Also, Lorenz's conversation with Marth in FE11 about Caeda as a little girl appears to indicate that Marth didn't know her then.]
Maybe they met on a diplomatic trip of some kind? That would be cute.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-31 01:11 am (UTC)Another "childhood friend" assumption is Ephraim/Lyon/Eirika...they all looked to be in their early teens in the flashback CG.
Maybe they met on a diplomatic trip of some kind? That would be cute.
That also crossed my mind. :D Hmm, maybe someday I'll write that!
no subject
Date: 2011-01-31 06:11 pm (UTC)He's one hot looker in the remake, but his interesting backstory stuff is all in FE3... and apparently FE12 retconned away one of the most interesting details.
Actually I like your jacked-up stuff. You write it so well. Plus it fits.
Thanks!
Honestly... if I weren't as hung-up on canon and profundity and all that sort of thing, I would just be spamming ffnet with Marth/Nyna, especially after seeing all the pretty pix of them from FE12. But I feel like I need a reason to do that, and there's only so many ways I can justify it to myself.
Lena and Julian didn't really get me, either.
Lena has possibly the most complex and interesting backstory of the Archanea gang, but I just can't get into her.
You know any fluff that happens between them can't really like...be much of anything. If that makes any sense.
Yeah, exactly. Is the relationship devoid of sweet and fluffy moments? No. But I don't see that as being dominant. I mean... it's not like Eliwood, OK? Not OMG romantic. No clandestine flower-picking expeditions. It's a relationship largely defined by sacrifice, which is absolutely beautiful in its own way but just isn't... fluffy. IMO.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-30 10:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-31 06:23 pm (UTC)Well, I would hope their marriage encompasses happy loving sexy tiems at some point, but I ain't feeling enough of it based on what we see of them in the games to want to write it. Maybe FE12 in its entirety will change my mind, but FE12 thus far only shifted me from thinking "This could be a great relationship or a terrible one" to "There are ISSUES here, people."
no subject
Date: 2011-01-31 07:47 pm (UTC)Sorry, should've specified.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-31 08:02 pm (UTC)I mean, "I'm sorry for inflicting such a horrible lifestyle on you, by the way things are about to get worse" followed by "Don't worry, no matter how bad it gets I won't leave you" does NOT exactly summon up images of Happily Ever After.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-30 08:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-30 10:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-31 07:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-01 02:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-01 04:11 am (UTC)It's worthwhile to note that throughout PoR, Ike/Soren is played down and Ike/Elincia is played up.
One example, from Ike/Elincia A:
Ike:
You employed me as a mercenary.
I'll give you your money's worth!
...No. It means more than that... To my last breath, I will do all that I
can to ensure your dream...Elincia.
From the Japanese:
[アイク] (中央右)
俺は、あんたに雇われた傭兵だ。
あんたの望みを叶えるために
全力を尽くすと約束する。▼
Rough translation:
Ike: I'm the mercenary you hired. To see your wishes granted, I promise I'll devote all my strength.
Or if you really wanted to translate it with ship goggles, I guess you could render it:
Ike: You employed me as your mercenary. I promise I'll exhaust every last drop of my strength for the sake of granting you your wish.
No, actually, it means exactly that! "Hey, you hired me. I'll stick to the Greil tradition. *thumbsup.*" You can note similar tweaks in the voice acting for United, throughout the script, and so on.
But, in regards to characterization, I think the Ike/Soren parts actually did not get the worst of it. The interaction between Soren and Stefan truly suffered. Here's a rendering of Soren encountering Stefan in 15 (http://r-amythest.livejournal.com/844461.html), which is more or less indicative of how their interaction was treated throughout the whole game, including their supports. I think this made Soren come off as more callous and less insecure, and Stefan as some manner of creepy rapist. (Fanon!Stefan is a rapist nine times out of ten. It's terrible.)