Epic Failure
Feb. 2nd, 2011 11:29 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mark_asphodel Taking a break from the "Bad Fanfiction" series... which has generated all kinds of fantastic discussion (y'all are awesome).
So,![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
sacae posted "If you had to write an "epic" (200k-500k) fanfiction about a group/groups of characters (any fandom, any characters), who would you choose to write about and why?"
A prequel to The Alienist about the adventures of Kreizler, Moore, and Roosevelt during their university days.
Uh...
Oh yes. I write for Fire Emblem.
Ideally, I'd do exactly what I mentioned doing on Manna's journal: "a serious take on the War of Heroes as enacted by adults without the anime shenanigans," wherein the politics and religion all made some kind of meaningful sense.
I do believe that the core story of said War of Heroes (FE3 Book II / FE12) is one of the best storylines in Fire Emblem (yes, Seisen is the end-all be-all of everything, and I've seen a strong case made for the storyline of Radiant Dawn), in part because it starts as a purely political story. It's not another case of "OMG we've been attacked"-- your team of "good guys" starts out doing some pretty dodgy work in another country at the request of the person who turns out to be the Big Bad. It's a taste of some of the complexities of Seisen; Hardin is banking on his knowledge of Marth, pushing Marth into one uncomfortable situation after another, upping the ante until Marth bucks his orders... which gives Hardin the pretext to invade Altea and declare Marth as Public Enemy Number One. At the core of it is, allegedly, a friendship and working relationship gone horribly, horribly wrong.
Unfortunately, the feel for that end of the storyline gets lost once the supernatural component kicks in. Not that the supernatural component is unwelcome, as the "dragon angle" turns out to be what makes the Archanea universe so very compelling. I tend to think that the actual point of the whole Archanea dog-and-pony show is actually the preservation of Tiki, not the question of who's married to whom, or who rules the continent. That's all Gotoh cares about, in any event, and he's as close to Voice of God as this universe gets.
So we have a very good supernatural/religious plotline, and a very good political story, and while they don't mesh seamlessly the combination makes the War of Heroes both extremely compelling and an excellent place to deploy fan-theories, suppositions, and crack. Now, what binds these two storylines together is the Gharnef/Medeus package deal, which IMO is the weak point of the story. Incredibly significant, and the source of some really memorable material, but... well, hell, didn't we just kill these guys a couple of years ago? FE12 apparently lends some depth to Gharnef beyond "butthurt and seeking revenge," but I frankly liked him better during the War of Darkness, wherein it was apparent he was planning to leave Medeus hanging and rule the continent all by his little twisted self. And Medeus gets an awesome backstory but nothing to really do except pop up from his hole, make threats, and die. Again.
But yeah, if I had infinite time to bang away at Fire Emblem and an audience that would give a damn, I'd want to give the War of Heroes a full-on serious treatment. Doing so, though, runs right into some serious problems. For one, if the key is to write a consistent, plausible take on the characters and their motivations, that means picking one characterization out of the possible options and sticking with it for 200K-500K words. Think that's easy? Not if you want the whole shebang to make any sense.
Take Our Hero. Marth's characterization over the years has been anything but consistent. He's saddled with the dual roles of being a inspirational/spiritual figure AND a political/military leader... well, let's just say later games didn't make that mistake. Imagine Eirika and L'Arachel melded into one character. Better yet, don't. So for a prose treatment of the game, you have at least three clear options:
1) Messiah!Marth. A naive, childlike (or childish) redemptive figure, come to lead Archanea out of the darkness that generations of wicked adults brought upon it. Pure-heared, trusting, loving, forgiving... and quite possibly immune to the corruption of the world, barring a BSOD breakdown. Pros of taking this route include a) why Gotoh trusts Marth and b) why Marth's father Cornelius was apparently not Good Enough to win the favor of the "gods." [Archanea canon makes clear that higher powers are orchestrating this whole fiasco. This CANNOT be ignored in interpreting canon.] Cons of this would include that Marth is not going to be able to lace his damned boots, much less lead an army, without major, major props from the supporting cast.
2) Hero!Marth. A politically-clued in adult figure, whose ideals and behavior are at least marginally better than the prevailing standard but who is not so special as to be incorruptible. Pros of this would include showing Marth as being capable of dealing with the massive political burden he's shouldering by the end of the war. Cons of this would be that, well, if he's not So Incredibly Special, why is there insistence on making him, er, Special?
3) Hypocrite!Marth. As in, someone whose "grand ideals" simply do not jive with the things he's actually doing. Pros of this include reconciling #1 and #2 above, to some extent. Cons of this are... well, we could hit darkfic territory in a hurry going that route.
And you can do interesting things with these that make something more than a regurgitation of the script in prose form. Messiah!Marth might be aided by a MyUnit figure-- instead of a cardboard MyUnit, how about a savvy operator, a spy or assassin, someone who really is pulling strings from the "shadows" to help the cause? Hero!Marth might have acquired his reputation for holiness after the fact; rather than winning because he was Special, he's remembered as Special because he won and his followers wrote the history books. Hypocrite!Marth (and I got this idea from FE12!Gharnef, fwiw) could be utilized in any number of ways-- he might be a well-intentioned person with a blind spot, he might be as self-righteous and ambitious as Hardin's propaganda paints him, or he might be flat-out delusional.
Hardin, Our Antagonist, offers similar problems-- is he a good (or great) man, a genuine friend whose real sin is not envy or wrath but acedia, which leaves him prey to the Darksphere's influence? Or a man and leader who really is corroded from within by resentment of a much younger rival? Is he aware of the influence of the Darksphere and fighting against it (canon indicates yes, IMO)? If so, how much is he willing or able to fight?
Obviously, the tone of the "epic fic" would change dramatically depending on which "Marth" and which "Hardin" are used. If Marth is squeaky-clean and Hardin hates his guts, it's going to be a different story from one where Marth's a suspect individual with a shiny reputation and Hardin hates his guts. And whatever the author (okay, I) chose from the outset of the story, it would have to be sustained for the full length of the epic... regardless of the pitfalls.
That's a shit-ton of work for a story maybe two people would read, and we haven't even touched the dragon plotline yet!
PS- I just realized I don't have a "Marth" tag for this journal. Basically, if it's about Fire Emblem, it's about Marth in some way, shape, or form.
So,
sacae posted "If you had to write an "epic" (200k-500k) fanfiction about a group/groups of characters (any fandom, any characters), who would you choose to write about and why?" A prequel to The Alienist about the adventures of Kreizler, Moore, and Roosevelt during their university days.
Uh...
Oh yes. I write for Fire Emblem.
Ideally, I'd do exactly what I mentioned doing on Manna's journal: "a serious take on the War of Heroes as enacted by adults without the anime shenanigans," wherein the politics and religion all made some kind of meaningful sense.
I do believe that the core story of said War of Heroes (FE3 Book II / FE12) is one of the best storylines in Fire Emblem (yes, Seisen is the end-all be-all of everything, and I've seen a strong case made for the storyline of Radiant Dawn), in part because it starts as a purely political story. It's not another case of "OMG we've been attacked"-- your team of "good guys" starts out doing some pretty dodgy work in another country at the request of the person who turns out to be the Big Bad. It's a taste of some of the complexities of Seisen; Hardin is banking on his knowledge of Marth, pushing Marth into one uncomfortable situation after another, upping the ante until Marth bucks his orders... which gives Hardin the pretext to invade Altea and declare Marth as Public Enemy Number One. At the core of it is, allegedly, a friendship and working relationship gone horribly, horribly wrong.
Unfortunately, the feel for that end of the storyline gets lost once the supernatural component kicks in. Not that the supernatural component is unwelcome, as the "dragon angle" turns out to be what makes the Archanea universe so very compelling. I tend to think that the actual point of the whole Archanea dog-and-pony show is actually the preservation of Tiki, not the question of who's married to whom, or who rules the continent. That's all Gotoh cares about, in any event, and he's as close to Voice of God as this universe gets.
So we have a very good supernatural/religious plotline, and a very good political story, and while they don't mesh seamlessly the combination makes the War of Heroes both extremely compelling and an excellent place to deploy fan-theories, suppositions, and crack. Now, what binds these two storylines together is the Gharnef/Medeus package deal, which IMO is the weak point of the story. Incredibly significant, and the source of some really memorable material, but... well, hell, didn't we just kill these guys a couple of years ago? FE12 apparently lends some depth to Gharnef beyond "butthurt and seeking revenge," but I frankly liked him better during the War of Darkness, wherein it was apparent he was planning to leave Medeus hanging and rule the continent all by his little twisted self. And Medeus gets an awesome backstory but nothing to really do except pop up from his hole, make threats, and die. Again.
But yeah, if I had infinite time to bang away at Fire Emblem and an audience that would give a damn, I'd want to give the War of Heroes a full-on serious treatment. Doing so, though, runs right into some serious problems. For one, if the key is to write a consistent, plausible take on the characters and their motivations, that means picking one characterization out of the possible options and sticking with it for 200K-500K words. Think that's easy? Not if you want the whole shebang to make any sense.
Take Our Hero. Marth's characterization over the years has been anything but consistent. He's saddled with the dual roles of being a inspirational/spiritual figure AND a political/military leader... well, let's just say later games didn't make that mistake. Imagine Eirika and L'Arachel melded into one character. Better yet, don't. So for a prose treatment of the game, you have at least three clear options:
1) Messiah!Marth. A naive, childlike (or childish) redemptive figure, come to lead Archanea out of the darkness that generations of wicked adults brought upon it. Pure-heared, trusting, loving, forgiving... and quite possibly immune to the corruption of the world, barring a BSOD breakdown. Pros of taking this route include a) why Gotoh trusts Marth and b) why Marth's father Cornelius was apparently not Good Enough to win the favor of the "gods." [Archanea canon makes clear that higher powers are orchestrating this whole fiasco. This CANNOT be ignored in interpreting canon.] Cons of this would include that Marth is not going to be able to lace his damned boots, much less lead an army, without major, major props from the supporting cast.
2) Hero!Marth. A politically-clued in adult figure, whose ideals and behavior are at least marginally better than the prevailing standard but who is not so special as to be incorruptible. Pros of this would include showing Marth as being capable of dealing with the massive political burden he's shouldering by the end of the war. Cons of this would be that, well, if he's not So Incredibly Special, why is there insistence on making him, er, Special?
3) Hypocrite!Marth. As in, someone whose "grand ideals" simply do not jive with the things he's actually doing. Pros of this include reconciling #1 and #2 above, to some extent. Cons of this are... well, we could hit darkfic territory in a hurry going that route.
And you can do interesting things with these that make something more than a regurgitation of the script in prose form. Messiah!Marth might be aided by a MyUnit figure-- instead of a cardboard MyUnit, how about a savvy operator, a spy or assassin, someone who really is pulling strings from the "shadows" to help the cause? Hero!Marth might have acquired his reputation for holiness after the fact; rather than winning because he was Special, he's remembered as Special because he won and his followers wrote the history books. Hypocrite!Marth (and I got this idea from FE12!Gharnef, fwiw) could be utilized in any number of ways-- he might be a well-intentioned person with a blind spot, he might be as self-righteous and ambitious as Hardin's propaganda paints him, or he might be flat-out delusional.
Hardin, Our Antagonist, offers similar problems-- is he a good (or great) man, a genuine friend whose real sin is not envy or wrath but acedia, which leaves him prey to the Darksphere's influence? Or a man and leader who really is corroded from within by resentment of a much younger rival? Is he aware of the influence of the Darksphere and fighting against it (canon indicates yes, IMO)? If so, how much is he willing or able to fight?
Obviously, the tone of the "epic fic" would change dramatically depending on which "Marth" and which "Hardin" are used. If Marth is squeaky-clean and Hardin hates his guts, it's going to be a different story from one where Marth's a suspect individual with a shiny reputation and Hardin hates his guts. And whatever the author (okay, I) chose from the outset of the story, it would have to be sustained for the full length of the epic... regardless of the pitfalls.
That's a shit-ton of work for a story maybe two people would read, and we haven't even touched the dragon plotline yet!
PS- I just realized I don't have a "Marth" tag for this journal. Basically, if it's about Fire Emblem, it's about Marth in some way, shape, or form.
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no subject
Date: 2011-02-02 09:05 pm (UTC)Yeah. I see what you mean about Lyn being inconsistent, but Marth is 9000% worse.
Most people who aren't adults don't think like adults
YES. And this was something I think (?) they pulled off in FE11-- when Marth got into certain situations that weren't "according to the rules," like when dealing with Horace and Camus (and when tomb-raiding in another dimension, hah), he didn't know how to deal with it. Wasn't part of Basic Hero Training, I guess.
But it might be kind of like, OH, so THAT'S where he's coming from.
Exactly. And that is a very good, very convincing way that It Might Go. That might well be how canon!Hardin actually sees it. But the trouble with a novel-length story is, once you've committed to that take on Marth and Hardin, if something then doesn't make sense in Chapter 23 (because characters who should also be irritated by NaiveHypocrite!Marth are lauding him and trusting him and such), you're hosed. Either the other characters (I'm thinking of smart cookies like George here) come off as nitwits or you have to start bending the iron framework of canon to make sense of things.
But I might be a bit biased, because I'm used to writing one-shots, where a character can, in general, be bent just a little in various directions to make things work.
Indeed.
I mean, I think I did something pretty ambitious with the Tales of the Unified Kingdom, and part of it was taking FE11!Marth and estimating where and what he'd be after the events of the War of Heroes. And I liked what I came up with (even though FE12 proved me oh so very wrong about him), and I worked with that knowing that a potential remake might drop me in the soup.
But even that wasn't one sustained novelization. It was a series of long and short pieces spanning decades, focused on different characters. That's a different set of challenges than attempting a 200K word epic.
At least your own characters, when made, are exactly as they need to be.
Not really. Once a character really comes alive, they can grow and evolve in directions you'd never expect. Discovering the hidden depths of your own OCs is a wonderful and frustrating thing.
Which is too bad, 'cause I had some excellent (I'm so full of myself) ideas for it.
I still think the world needs an FE7 epic without the tactician, and one that preferably doesn't start in Lyn's ger on the plains. Start with the fall of Cornwall, or the death of Hector's parents, or with Florina meeting Lyn for the first time, or SOMETHING else.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-03 12:50 am (UTC)