New Thoughts on Ephraim
Jan. 21st, 2011 06:22 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mark_asphodelIT'S A TROLL, GUYS.
He admits to being an ex-troll. He admits to being a trouble maker. And he comes on with his barrage of bogus facts, his misuse of inflammatory words (Ellen the pedophile?), and his statements that cannot be taken as anything but offensive, and the people who call him out on it can't get a break.
OTOH, rebuttals to his trolling have stimulated some actual discussion of canon in that Pairing Game thread.
But dammit, if I were a mod I'd have banned his ass by now. (Greener, not Korean Boron Etc)
-x-
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emblanon caught my eye. Not convinced Ephraim is intended as disinterested in women. He reacts too strongly to L'Arachel, IMO. And if you don't think that's a reaction, compare Eph's interactions with L'Arachel to, say, Marth's interactions with any female not named Caeda in any of the Archanea games. By Fire Emblem standards, "She's rather cute" is practically "I'd hit that."
But I don't see his "support" with L'Arachel as anything terribly deep and meaningful, and I do not for one second believe in his relationship with Tana (and the anons outlined the disconnect in that relationship pretty well).
And Ephraim is kind of... odd, at least as far as his paired endings go.
Let's recap:
Early FE games presented a One True Love set-up for the main character. You have Alm/Cellica and Sigurd/Diadora (mandatory canon), Marth/Caeda and Leaf/Nanna (default canon), and that was that. But FE4 presented the world with Pimpmaster Celice and his harem of eligible women, and that continued with Super Pimp Roy and his gaggle of beauties in FE6. (The sex appeal of either Celice or Roy utterly eludes me.) Even so, the game played favorites-- clearly Celice is supposed to go withYuria Rana, and I think FE6 pushes Lilina moreso than Roy's other options. Then come FE7, the two male Lords have three marriage options each; in Eliwood's case, the game again is pretty overt about Eliwood/Ninian... and in Hector's case, I personally think that the unlockable Hector/Lyn content was intended as a hint along the same lines. But, as with Celice and Roy, you cannot say that any of the possible options is True Canon.
Then we get to FE8, wherein Eirika continues the proud pimpmaster tradition by being able to snag Seth, or Saleh, or Innes, and arguably Forde (hey, they have a paired ending, which is more than Rennac gets with L'Arachel). Her brother, on the other hand, gets two actual marriage options-- Tana (whose support conversations are, IMO, off-putting and cold), and L'Arachel (which the game script doesn't really seem to take seriously). Of the two, the script seems to be pushing Tana... but Eph's interactions with her just don't sound convincing.
Tana, you're still just a child at heart, aren't you?
No, I meant it as a compliment. Because you're so young, your words have such a simple, honest purity... I do appreciate your affection.
Whoa, my heart is just melting. :/
Compare that with this:
We grew up like brother and sister, but you were always the one helping me. I was able to come this far because you were always there for me, to support me and cheer me up. Nanna, once this war ends, I'll go look for Lachesis as well. And when I find her, I'm going to ask her directly...for your hand, Nanna... (Leaf, FE5)
Or this:
I want to see your smile more than your power. (Roy to Sofia, FE6)
Or this:
Ninian, I love you. That will not change, no matter what may come...
I don’t care what your secret is-- I will still feel the same. If something troubles you, let me sweep it away. (Eliwood, FE7)
Not that there aren't other unromantic supports that end in a marriage, but the issue with Ephraim is that both of his marital options are... unsatisfying. And as for his other paired endings...
1) With Eirika. Take that any way you wish.
2) With Myrrh. Explicitly cast as a big brother/little sister relationshipechoing earlier games.
His other supports are with Forde, Kyle and Duessel; none of these come across as epic bromances, much less romances. But there's more warmth in his supports with these three than there is in his supports with Tana. Also, please ignore Lyon's corpse behind the curtain. We don't have time for that tonight.
Anyway, all of this has bothered me for a while, but I'd never really thought of the possibility that there was actually something wrong with Ephraim. So, I'll be thinking that one over for a while.
All this has made me reconsider the Tana/Ephraim!fail piece I drafted out a while back. Maybe I will write that one up after all.
He admits to being an ex-troll. He admits to being a trouble maker. And he comes on with his barrage of bogus facts, his misuse of inflammatory words (Ellen the pedophile?), and his statements that cannot be taken as anything but offensive, and the people who call him out on it can't get a break.
OTOH, rebuttals to his trolling have stimulated some actual discussion of canon in that Pairing Game thread.
But dammit, if I were a mod I'd have banned his ass by now. (Greener, not Korean Boron Etc)
-x-
This on
emblanon caught my eye. Not convinced Ephraim is intended as disinterested in women. He reacts too strongly to L'Arachel, IMO. And if you don't think that's a reaction, compare Eph's interactions with L'Arachel to, say, Marth's interactions with any female not named Caeda in any of the Archanea games. By Fire Emblem standards, "She's rather cute" is practically "I'd hit that."But I don't see his "support" with L'Arachel as anything terribly deep and meaningful, and I do not for one second believe in his relationship with Tana (and the anons outlined the disconnect in that relationship pretty well).
And Ephraim is kind of... odd, at least as far as his paired endings go.
Let's recap:
Early FE games presented a One True Love set-up for the main character. You have Alm/Cellica and Sigurd/Diadora (mandatory canon), Marth/Caeda and Leaf/Nanna (default canon), and that was that. But FE4 presented the world with Pimpmaster Celice and his harem of eligible women, and that continued with Super Pimp Roy and his gaggle of beauties in FE6. (The sex appeal of either Celice or Roy utterly eludes me.) Even so, the game played favorites-- clearly Celice is supposed to go with
Then we get to FE8, wherein Eirika continues the proud pimpmaster tradition by being able to snag Seth, or Saleh, or Innes, and arguably Forde (hey, they have a paired ending, which is more than Rennac gets with L'Arachel). Her brother, on the other hand, gets two actual marriage options-- Tana (whose support conversations are, IMO, off-putting and cold), and L'Arachel (which the game script doesn't really seem to take seriously). Of the two, the script seems to be pushing Tana... but Eph's interactions with her just don't sound convincing.
Tana, you're still just a child at heart, aren't you?
No, I meant it as a compliment. Because you're so young, your words have such a simple, honest purity... I do appreciate your affection.
Whoa, my heart is just melting. :/
Compare that with this:
We grew up like brother and sister, but you were always the one helping me. I was able to come this far because you were always there for me, to support me and cheer me up. Nanna, once this war ends, I'll go look for Lachesis as well. And when I find her, I'm going to ask her directly...for your hand, Nanna... (Leaf, FE5)
Or this:
I want to see your smile more than your power. (Roy to Sofia, FE6)
Or this:
Ninian, I love you. That will not change, no matter what may come...
I don’t care what your secret is-- I will still feel the same. If something troubles you, let me sweep it away. (Eliwood, FE7)
Not that there aren't other unromantic supports that end in a marriage, but the issue with Ephraim is that both of his marital options are... unsatisfying. And as for his other paired endings...
1) With Eirika. Take that any way you wish.
2) With Myrrh. Explicitly cast as a big brother/little sister relationship
His other supports are with Forde, Kyle and Duessel; none of these come across as epic bromances, much less romances. But there's more warmth in his supports with these three than there is in his supports with Tana. Also, please ignore Lyon's corpse behind the curtain. We don't have time for that tonight.
Anyway, all of this has bothered me for a while, but I'd never really thought of the possibility that there was actually something wrong with Ephraim. So, I'll be thinking that one over for a while.
All this has made me reconsider the Tana/Ephraim!fail piece I drafted out a while back. Maybe I will write that one up after all.
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no subject
Date: 2011-01-23 12:48 am (UTC)But considering how hard he tried to keep up the calm, badass warrior persona, I'd be surprised if he DIDN'T turn out a little messed up after the whole thing. Especially considering how much darker his scenes with Lyon were compared to all the Lyon/Eirika scenes. :/
no subject
Date: 2011-01-23 01:30 am (UTC)I think the L'Ara supports are amusing, but they're not especially... deep. I don't see a real emotional connection there, just a physical one. Though I guess L'Ara is hitting on him, sort of, by the epilogue.
the Eph/Tana supports felt so out of character for Tana
Yes. Yes, they did.
Especially considering how much darker his scenes with Lyon were compared to all the Lyon/Eirika scenes. :/
I think a lot about Eph route was darker, personally. Yeah, the stuff with Ismaire and Carlyle was bad, but... Myrrh and her father? That was seriously awful.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-23 01:34 am (UTC)Oh, definitely. And we actually get to the heart of what caused the trouble in Grado...chapter 14Eph never fails to give me chills.
(Also because I'm a horrible person I used Myrrh to deal the final blow to Morva.)
btw, I hope you don't mind my randomly popping up in your journal like this from time to time. XD
no subject
Date: 2011-01-23 01:37 am (UTC)Heheh. InDEED.
I hope you don't mind my randomly popping up in your journal like this from time to time. XD
Nope. Your contributions are always welcome.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-23 01:41 am (UTC)(Though I could totally buy her wanting to set up a threesome with both twins.)
Thanks! *beams*