Pairing Meme: FE7 Time

[mark_asphodel]

Uh-oh.  I must be crazy to do this... posting my public opinions about the game that most of you hold dearest to your hearts when I've never unlocked Hector mode or played Hard Mode anything or unlocked most of the support convos or lived for years immersed in Elibe.

So, just take into account that these are all my own personal opinions and biases, mmmkay?
 
- One True Pairing Ship
- Canon Ship
- "If this happens I'll stab my eyes out with a spork" Ship
- "You are one sick bastard" Ship
- "I dabble a little" Ship
- "It's like a car crash" Ship
- "Tickles my fancy but not sold just yet" Ship
- "Makes no canon sense but why not" Ship
- "Everyone else loves it but I just don't feel it" Ship

OTP 'Ship: 
Don't have one yet. 

Though I must confess to a very strong preference for Hector/Lyn for political reasons.  I am not terribly taken with either Lyn or Hector as personalities (no, really) and their "courtship" contains some elements that annoy me.  But Lyn's various endings irk me greatly with regards to the fate of Caelin, and I much prefer the idea that Caelin passes to Lyn's own daughter rather than believing that, after fighting a struggle over her rights to Caelin in which people died, including decent people who were on the wrong side, she just "pulls a Nyna" and runs away to suit her own interests.  The idea that Lilina's ultimate role of unifying all of Lycia begins literally at home, with the union of her father's Ostia and her mother's Caelin, also pleases me.

Canon 'Ship:
Gotta go with Pent/Louise.  They're sweet, they're canon... they might be morons for messing around in wartime but I guess Klein's age was predetermined and that's how the timeline shook out.  And apparently Clarine turns out to be rather obnoxious.  But these two have some especially touching retreat quotes and I really don't understand why some people loathe them.  And Pent's cute.  

Spork 'Ship:
Oh, god.  So many of these.  If there's Matthew/Guy involved, I'm not reading it unless I really, really trust that author and have some kind of motivation to even be reading it.  Heath/Legault, same deal.  Kent/Sain, same deal.  Anything involving "sex" and Karel, same deal.  And the reason for all these is the same-- overexposure to bad fanfic back in the day when I was plowing through ffnet looking for anything related to the "Akaneia" games.  I saw enough M/G, H/L, and K/S that the 'fic summaries started to give me hives.  And use of Karel often just seems to be an excuse to be exceptionally gross.  Heath/Legault might be a fine pairing in some respect, but at this point, I just don't care what its good points are and I don't want to read it.

Sick Bastard 'Ship:
Some authors write things involving the morphs.  Some of these stories are really not that bad.  Some of them are.  Eliwood/Limstella was the centerpiece of a surprisingly thoughtful 'fic that threw FE6 canon out the window.  I'm still not sure whether I enjoyed it or not, but I certainly finished it.  Though it might have just been the realism of that story that impressed me, rather than the pairing; the author didn't hold back at all when inflicting dysentery upon Eliwood, and a lot of writers just wouldn't try.

Dabble 'Ship:
I'd kind of like to see some solid 'fics featuring Erk and Nino post-game.  I can see why no one writes it (the overwhelming predominance of Jaffar/Nino), but I like the possibilities.  He's very sweet with her... the picture book and everything.  Aww.

Car Crash 'Ship:
Eliwood/Fiora and Eliwood/Lyn.  Because of, you know, Ninian.  Eli/Fiora I sort of fancy on its own merits (and because I rather like to be weird), but I've finally fallen into the camp that says that, yes, Ninian really is Eliwood's True Love and he won't ever be the same if she goes through the Gate.  Eliwood/Fiora is going to be problematic (and boy did I like "Fools Rush In" by sacae  for tackling some of the problems), and we know it can't possibly end Happily Ever After.   As for Eliwood/Lyn, I don't believe them to be anything more than dear friends, and while I can appreciate the fictional possibilities of Eliwood turning to his best friend for comfort, there are again going to be Issues.  And this one doesn't end so well either.

Also, realistically?  Hector/Farina is going to be like a fifty-car pileup in the center of Ostia.

Harken/Isadora has the hint of screeching metal and burning gasoline around it, too.


Not Sold 'Ship:
Lots of pairings, really.  I dunno.  Erk/Priscilla?  

Why Not? 'Ship:
Friends have successfully made the case to me that Sain/Florina ought to have been a viable option.  Sain is, whatever his quirks, a gentle man as well as a gentleman and would treat Florina very well.

Also rather liked shining_valor 's take on future!Pent/Louise wherein Pent is all wrapped up in his studies and Louise is consoling herself with Erk.

And finally-- I like Hector/Serra, dammit!  That's another one that should've been canon.  It's loopy and whacked-out and there's such poignant depth behind Serra's confabulations and I.  Just.  Like.  It.  [FWIW, Serra = an evolution of FE3's Melissa with more than one facet to her personality.]

Not Feelin' It 'Ship:
I understand why people gravitate to Kent/Lyn (well, for a start, it's about the only marriage ending that doesn't assume that she DIES), but in spite of the many fellow writers who have made the case for it, this pairing is something I like and read only on an intermittent basis.  A handful of stories have connected with me emotionally, but most don't, and I think the problem is mostly that I'm not especially taken with Lyn.

Same thing with Hector/Florina.  This is a "type" of pairing (super-shy and gentle girl, big lummox of a guy) that fails to move me in general, and while individual stories have touched me, as it stands I consider this to be the least preferred of Hector's canon-pairing options.  As in, "I'd rather see him with Eliwood."

While Raven/Lucius can be done decently, usually it just seems like an excuse for stereotypical seme/uke garbage.  Again, I trust some authors in particular and don't bother with the rest.

[I can tell when I'm really only connecting with particular stories and not with a pairing based on whether or not I bother looking for fanart.  If it's purely the writer, I ain't digging up fanart for that couple, because it's not really the couple that clicks for me.]

Finally, Nino and Jaffar?  Yeah, I know it's one of those canon-preferred things where you're really supposed to go with Jaffar even if Erk is technically an option, but it leaves me quite frigid.  I wouldn't say I hate it, exactly, but I don't react well to it and I can't entirely say why just yet. 

There.  I did it.  Meme's done, unless I'm going to half-ass my way though Jugdral.  Not touching Tellius with a ten-foot pole.

Comments

[thenicochan.livejournal.com]

Yaaaayy FE7!

Miscellaneous comments follow, with no flow or purpose:

Pent/Louise is probably my Elibe OTP. But you are right, it seems a lot of people just don't like them. I think they're sweet and funny and they are both very pretty together

The Holy Trinity of Elibe Yaoi you have mentioned tends to have the same effect on me. I don't even really care for Matthew/Guy even when it's written well. Kent/Sain, in my head, could really work out, and I've seen some really good fics for it, so of the trio it is my favorite for sure.

Eliwood/Lyn seems to be just generally unpopular. That woman has was too many romantic options (If you're on the Eliwood/Lyn side, maybe that's where Roy got his playboy ending tendencies from?)

I read sacae's Eliwood/Fiora fic and it really intrigued me. I could see this pairing (or any Eliwood pairing other than Ninian) as simply being a tragic attempt at Eliwood moving past Ninian's return through the Gate...

I share your sentiments on Kent/Lyn, though I enjoy Lyn just fine. Something about it just doesn't click with me all the way.

Raven/Lucius has the makings of a really excellent pairing, and I've read a few good fics centering on them but you are right. They are often forced into the seme/uke roles by the fangirls who have no regard for characterization. R/L also have the nice distinction of being one of those "subtle possibilities" thanks to their ending, which IS made sure to gay-up to eleven. I also have a bit of a hard time connecting with Raven as a character. I feel like if he was a real person in our current society he would be a whiny kid who only shops at Hot Topic and pretends to be all "deep and brooding" but probably has a poster of Twilight in his room.

Also, Nino/Jaffar? Despite the creepy age difference I am sold on this pairing. It pleases me.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

I also have a bit of a hard time connecting with Raven as a character. I feel like if he was a real person in our current society he would be a whiny kid who only shops at Hot Topic and pretends to be all "deep and brooding" but probably has a poster of Twilight in his room.

A++++++++++++++

I can't connect with Raven, either. But part of that for me is because he's a prick. Hell, he's nicer to Rebecca than to Lucius, and that rubs me the wrong way. Lucius has been there for him and been nice to him for like, forever, but he still treats him like dirt. Also Raven is very self-absorbed. We're all a bit selfish but he tops the charts. :/

[thenicochan.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I mean, Raven is just...IDK. He just kinda bugs me. I don't hate him or anything, I just...think he's really whiny. and he probably has a Team Edward shirt under his normal clothes and listens to nothing but My Chemical Romance and Dashboard Confessions on his Ipod...

[shining-valor.livejournal.com]

Raven + Jaffar forever...! And Rath, cause he'd fit right in with them.

Like, don't take this comment too seriously... :P

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Heh. Dashboard Confessional. How true.

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

I also have a bit of a hard time connecting with Raven as a character. I feel like if he was a real person in our current society he would be a whiny kid who only shops at Hot Topic and pretends to be all "deep and brooding" but probably has a poster of Twilight in his room.
Must. Resist. Urge. To write this. Ugh.

Raven: NO MY EMO HAIR DYE, "SOULS BLACK LIKE COFFEE" IS OUT OF STOCK! I'M GONNA GO CRY TO EVANESCENCE AND CONSOLE MYSELF WITH TWILIGHT AND HOW PERFECT EDWARD'S RELATIONSHIP WITH BELLA IS. THEN I'M GONNA GO SLIT MY WRISTS AND GO BUY SOME MORE BLACK NAIL POLISH.

/FOCUSES ON NOVEL

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

I don't know what's worse... that writing Raven that way is perfectly fair, or the fact that SSB fans write Marth that way.

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

...

emo!Marth makes God kill kittens. Marth can be angsty without being emo and the fact that--

oh wait this is Smash Brothers fandom we're talking about

*SIGH*

I for one would never in a million years write Marth that way, he never once struck me as being a Twihard-Hot-Topic-wearing-hair-dying emotard. Or being emo in general.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

he never once struck me as being a Twihard-Hot-Topic-wearing-hair-dying emotard.

FE11!Marth is more of a nerd than anything. Not super-nerdy like the mages, but if all the FE Lords went to high school together, Hector and/or Ephraim would probably shove Marth into a locker at least once. Per year.

Or being emo in general.

Let's just agree to forget about that "fragile bleeding heart" crap in the FE12 Prologue, yes?

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

I ♥ nerdy!Marth. HE'D BE VALEDICTORIAN AND HAVE LIKE, A 5.2 GPA OR SOMETHING if he went to my school anyway.

Yes. Hell, I am going to pretend that a lot of the prologue in FE12 doesn't exist. Sweep it under the rug, etc. etc.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

I ♥ nerdy!Marth. HE'D BE VALEDICTORIAN AND HAVE LIKE, A 5.2 GPA OR SOMETHING if he went to my school anyway.

I went to a nerd-magnet school (no Hectors allowed). Marth would be one of the kids that the teachers liked because they were socially polished enough to get into a good college and enhance the school's reputation, but that the other kids shunned because they were just that likely to end up a bell-tower shooter or blow the whole place up one day.

If I'd gone to school post-Columbine, many of my brightest classmates would have gone to jail.

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

My high school was more for the athletically inclined, though our Arts programme wasn't bad. Can't speak for the art classes, but the music department was the best in the immediate area, so. BUT SMARTS WERE VERY HIGHLY VALUED.

Fortunately, none of my brightest classmates would be the type to blow up a building since they were all pretty well rounded. It was the ones who freaked out when they got an 1890 on the SATs and decided that wasn't good enough that you had to look out for.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

It was the ones who freaked out when they got an 1890 on the SATs and decided that wasn't good enough that you had to look out for.

Oh yeah, them too.

We had all these guys who looked perfect on paper-- attractive, charismatic, star of the debate team, quiz bowl, Academic Decathlon and all that jazz, Ivy League candidates all-- who, at the end of senior year when we were collecting our awards, starting spilling their guts about all their elaborate plans to take hostages and kill everybody. And all their hatred and self-loathing and alienation. And they were perfectly serious.

It was something to hear, oh yes.

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

who, at the end of senior year when we were collecting our awards, starting spilling their guts about all their elaborate plans to take hostages and kill everybody. And all their hatred and self-loathing and alienation. And they were perfectly serious.
Oh. Well, isn't that a lovely thing to hear. I think I'd get as far away as possible from them.

Must've been stressful, that school.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Holy Trinity of Elibe Yaoi? Yeah, that sounds about right.

If you're on the Eliwood/Lyn side, maybe that's where Roy got his playboy ending tendencies from?

HEH!

They are often forced into the seme/uke roles by the fangirls who have no regard for characterization.

Yeah, what you said down below about Big Mean Hector and Raven's Healing Cock is only too true.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

PFFF ILU. For being opinionated. YES.

Spork ships-- I agree 100% on all of those. I actually see Karel as asexual, and there are so many shitty attempts at Matthew/Guy and Kent/Sain and Legault/Heath (that, by the way, bring a whole new meaning to OOC) that it's enough to really make you contemplate grabbing a fork for your eyes.

Dabble ship-- I actually like the idea of Erk and Nino, and might play around with it for my novelization. I can see Jaffar/Nino, but the cliché (badass serious killer + hyper young girl who loves him) not only doesn't do it for me...it's been WAY OVERDONE. (And, by the way, done much, much better.) IMHO, Erk/Nino makes the *most* sense in terms of canon. Erk and Nino and Jaffar are all gone-- it's safe to assume that Erk either went into hiding or (as per canon ending) went after Nino. I don't think Nino wouldn't like Jaffar, because he's something familiar to cling to, I guess. But after spending time with Lyn (who seems to sort of mother her?) and then with Erk and even others, I think she'd actually grow apart from Jaffar. Then again, I also feel he couldn't ever really love her and care for her and give her what she needs. TL;DR...their relationship would be really, really fucked up. And in the worst of ways.

Car Crash ships-- Oh God, so much to say. I'll try to keep it short.

1.) Eliwood/anyone that isn't Ninian.

A.) Eliwood/Lyn just makes me :| In a lot of ways, it's worse (more tragic?) than Eliwood/Fiora. I guess I see it as being that way because Lyn frolics off to Sacae again in canon, which tells me she wouldn't be happy living anywhere else (for an extended period of time/for the rest of her life). No matter what anyone says, some people get severely homesick even if they really love someone and want to be with them. (I don't think love conquers all, obviously. Hah.) The good thing about it is that they are, at least, good friends. But it would feel too platonic to me. Meh.

B.) Eliwood/Fiora. Ah! Glad you liked that 'fic, by the way. I have been thinking way too much about characters over the last however many years. sain and I regularly would have long (4+ hour) discussions about pairings and characters, and realism-- "Will ____/_____ work out?" The game crams Ninian down your throat, and he's very affectionate toward her in canon-- if he wasn't, I would probably enjoy Eliwood/Fiora a lot. However, the game at least makes it pretty clear that his #1 pick is Ninian, and anyone else would be second best/leftovers.

I could have gone much deeper into the Eliwood/Fiora pairing, and I might with a novelization. I honestly can't decide on things like pairings because I like so many. I love triangles, but writing several of them... eh. At any rate, I can see Eliwood/Fiora working out, but like I tried to show with that 'fic...I don't see both of them being truly happy.

C.) I love Hector/Farina. He has the dynamic with her that he has with Lyn, but Farina won't want to run off to Sacae and very likely wants to stay as far from Ilia's shittiness as she can get. Also, their "arguments" aren't really arguments so much as they're Farina being distrusting. And IMHO she probably has a lot of reasons to be. Someone did mention writing a story about having her run away after marrying Hector, though, and I found that to be intriguing. (Way, way more intriguing than Lyn doing something similar. But I think this was because Farina would probably take stuff. Maybe.) But it's very car-crashy, not only because of Farina's inability to trust, but because Hector's a protecting type and Farina doesn't seem to want to be "protected". I do see it working, and I like it much more than Hector/Florina (AHH DON'T SHOOT ME) but it wouldn't ever be a perfect ending type thing.

D.) Harken/Isadora doesn't bode well with me, either. I really like shimizu_hitomi's 'fic about Isadora. I still don't like Harken, though. He's a loser in my book. :/

2/2

[hooves.livejournal.com]

Why not? ship-- YES. I like the idea of Sain/Florina, too. Or Wil/Florina. Or Florina/someone that isn't Hector. I could ABSOLUTELY see her crushing on Hector (he is handsome), but I think she'd be better off with someone else.

Also, Hector/Serra. ♥ I would write it, but I wouldn't know where to start, and I guess I was always afraid of "breaking canon" by trying to make a marriage out of it. I could always be fucked up and write something Hector/Farina, Hector/Florina, or Hector/Lyn and have him cheat on his wife with Serra. But fandom would probably string me up by my eyelashes. :| I have thought about doing it, though. Yeah, I'm messed up.

Not feelin' it ship--

A.) Sorry to hear you're not feelin' the KentLyn love, but lots of people don't, either, so you're not alone. At first I'll admit I was a little skeptical of the pairing-- I was a former hardcore HectorLyn shipper, you know, and found a KentLyn 'fic while looking for HectorLyn stuff.

It all settles on the characters, though. There are some pairings I like, but not on a general, overall level. For example, Erk/Serra could be super screwy...but it has potential to be interesting. Maybe he didn't win over Priscilla and he's using her to take her place? Another great example is Pent/Louise. They're sugarplum fairies and it's boring to me. But if you look deeper at their life, their relationship, and so on, you can see that it's not all happy rainbows and puppies-- and that makes them interesting as a romantic pairing. (Also, nobody gets married expecting or thinking things will go bad or that they'll fight, et cetera. So having a couple like PentLouise get into an argument or disagree? Gives them a lot of depth and makes them more relateable to the average person.)

In short, I like KentLyn, and I honestly should explore the things about their relationship that I haven't touched yet. Like you mentioned Lyn's selfishness. I keep intending to cover things like that in a novelization, but I haven't gotten far enough to bother with it. (I actually found a lot of fault with how they wrote Lyn-- too many inconsistencies with her character.)

B.) A few people have convinced me Hector/Florina can work. But overall I don't see it, it doesn't touch or move me, et cetera. I do write about it on occasion as you might have noticed (:P) but while the type appeals to me (shy girl/brash big guy) the characters together do not. Hector's a good guy, but he's not a gentle giant. he's relatively nice to Farina, nice to Florina and Hector, but to Lyn he says a few hurtful things and probably doesn't realize it. I actually think he'd be way more likely to hurt Florina's feelings on accident and alienate her from him than anything. Actually quite depressing when you think about it.

C.) Raven/Lucius, I agree totally. Most of it's garbage. Which is too bad. I love Lucius. (But no matter how hard I try, I can't stand Raven-- IMHO he's one of the worst characters in the game for me. I hate writing about him.

D.) Jaffar/Nino, again, I agree with this. Everyone talks about the age difference, which I always thought was 14-year-old Nino and 17 (or 19)-year-old Jaffar. IMHO that's nothing. If you go by Japanese ages, Lyn's only 15, and Kent's in his 20s. Sain is also in his 20s, so if you paired him with FLORINA it'd be a bigger age gap. And people go all BLAHBLAHBLAH about Nino and Jaffar, but what about OSWIN and SERRA? :| (I'm immune to age differences after going after someone 21 years older than me, maybe. 1.) It's a medieval society, and 2.) if the two people involved are willing and understand what they're doing, who cares? But yeah, Jaffar/Nino presses many wrong buttons and raises too many red flags for me to like it on a general level. I can appreciate its fucked-up-ness, but I haven't felt much like writing about them.

Though I intend to, someday.

Re: 2/2

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

Everyone talks about the age difference, which I always thought was 14-year-old Nino and 17 (or 19)-year-old Jaffar. IMHO that's nothing. If you go by Japanese ages, Lyn's only 15, and Kent's in his 20s. Sain is also in his 20s, so if you paired him with FLORINA it'd be a bigger age gap
Also since the game was made in Japan, they're basing some of the stuff on their own culture. The age of consent in Japan is thirteen and it's not uncommon to see a fourteen year old with someone who's almost out of high school/in college. So Lyn being fifteen and Kent being in his twenties? Here we'd be all, "ZOMG," but in Japan they'd just shrug their shoulders and go, "So?"

also yes back in the medieval times it wasn't uncommon for a twelve year old girl to marry a man old enough to be her father so there's that too.

Re: 2/2

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

I don't care about the age difference in Nino/Jaffar. That's the least of my concerns.

Actually, Abel/Est has a pretty big age gap, too... but then again, that one doesn't work out so well, does it?

also yes back in the medieval times it wasn't uncommon for a twelve year old girl to marry a man old enough to be her father so there's that too.

Hell, in the glory days of Rome, it was mandatory....

Re: 2/2

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

I actually don't really care about age difference either. It's how the pairing itself WORKS that I care about. And TBH I really don't care much about the pairings in FE7 anymore because I kinda left that part of fandom a while ago. And Nino/Jaffar? Is kind of...eh. To me it's one of those overly written pairings that just makes me headdesk and move on, much like my reactions to Kent/Sain, Matthew/Guy, Heath/Legault, etc. etc.

I don't know what the hell they're even doing to most of the characters(' relationships) anymore. I think my mind is still boggled from what they did to Abel and Est, let alone what they did to them as a pairing.

Aah, Rome. They sure were, uh, interesting people. Kinky, kinda like the Greeks.

Re: 2/2

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

I could ABSOLUTELY see her crushing on Hector (he is handsome), but I think she'd be better off with someone else.

Yeah, really.

But fandom would probably string me up by my eyelashes.

Screw fandom. Do it! I mean, I understand where you're coming from, and I'm relieved to write for a smaller subset of the fandom that has yet to lynch me for writing Marth/Nyna, but still...

For example, Erk/Serra could be super screwy...but it has potential to be interesting. Maybe he didn't win over Priscilla and he's using her to take her place?

Ooh, yeah.

I actually found a lot of fault with how they wrote Lyn-- too many inconsistencies with her character.

Yeah, IS seems to have some persistent ISSUES in that regard. See: various contradictory permutations of Marth

Hector's a good guy, but he's not a gentle giant.

Word.

[thenicochan.livejournal.com]

It seems like a lot of people don't like Harken/Isadora. I dunno, I thought they were awesome. I <3 Harken, I think he's a really interesting character.

You wouldn't like Raven/Lucius though, would you? I mean...it's slash XD. Either way, I think the pairing could be really interesting if written well and not falling into awful yaoi stereotypes (i.e: Lucius: BOOHOOHOO I was raped my mean Hector! // Raven: Oh no, Lucius-kins! Here, have my HEALING COCK!), and going beyond what's in the game (i.e: Lucius: Lord Raven, allow me to be with you. // Raven: STFU I'm angsting.) They have an interesting dynamic not really touched upon in the game because...well...Raven's kinda of a douchebag.

I want you to write that novelization. All this talk about it has me excited to see what you would do with it.

Oh, and I agree with some of what you said of Pent/Louise OTP. It would be nice to see a little less perfection, but I love them as they are. I see some issues with their relationship as is though. Pent is always spending all his time away from Louise, focused on MAGIC!! and other things. I'd love to see a fic dealing with them drifting apart or him dealing with her death. He obviously loves her intensely, but I think he takes Louise for granted and just assumes she'll always be behind him no matter what.

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

I... TBH I never really liked Harken all that much. He was too whiny, even though Marcus basically tells him, "STFU ALREADY, YOU CAN'T BRING LORD ELBERT BACK, IT WAS A TRAGEDY AND I GET THAT, BUT FFS MAN, YOU HAVE LORD ELIWOOD TO LOOK AFTER, GET A GRIP OR I WILL SMACK YOU >:|" I was always like, "GOD, CRY MOAR, HARKEN."

I like Isadora with Marcus. Or Legault. But not Harken. I think she could find someone better.

And while yes there are ttly slashy vibes between Raven and Lucius, count me as one of the people who doesn't really care too much about it too.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

I like Isadora with Marcus.

/would so ship it

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Harken and Isadora are like Astram and Midia from FE3, except crazy. Astram is a blockheaded tool and Midia is the original Female Fail!din, but they're not especially tormented people. They're too convinced of their own righteousness, I guess (even when they're serving the wrong team, as Astram does again, and again, and again...).

I'm not sure if I like Harken and Isadora or not, but I do think they're a mess.

He obviously loves her intensely, but I think he takes Louise for granted and just assumes she'll always be behind him no matter what.

This is true. I think Manna actually wrote a ficlet tackling just that issue some time last year.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I did. Uhmmmm (I had to look it up), Five More Minutes (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4135438/43/Every_Color_of_the_Rainbow). I don't really want the pairing to go that way, of course. They're really sweet and it'd be nice if they didn't. But it wouldn't be hard to see it happening.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

IMHO, Erk/Nino makes the *most* sense in terms of canon. Erk and Nino and Jaffar are all gone-- it's safe to assume that Erk either went into hiding or (as per canon ending) went after Nino.

Sounds like you're the perfect person to write them, then! I can buy that.

But I think this was because Farina would probably take stuff. Maybe.

OK, you had me laughing on the floor with that one-- because it's too true!

I also see Hector/Farina as a big explosion because of the simple fact that he's Marquess Ostia and that makes Miss Mercenary the marchioness and... yeah. If they were two regular people, it would still be a volatile relationship. Put these two together as the Lord and Lady and ka-boom! That said, I also prefer it to Hector/Florina.

I still don't like Harken, though. He's a loser in my book.

He's an expy of one of the biggest tools in FE3 (Astram). A number of FE7 characters are pretty blatant FE3 expies. Like, uh, Serra.

Reposted for HTML fail.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

I don't think badly of Farina-- I think she's had a really hard life and has done a lot of things she probably regrets doing. But if I was going to leave a marriage with a nobleman, I'd probably take some stuff, too. It's not like they'd miss it. (But then imagine how sad Hector would be. I don't know that I myself could write a 'fic like that and break his fictional heart.)

[samuraiter.livejournal.com]

You and I seem to disagree on a large number of pairings in Elibe (note my response to this meme), but this, of course, is perfectly okay. :-) Elibe, like FE in general, has a little for everybody, but that which is catnip for one person can be stinkweed for another, and everybody interprets these character dynamics a little differently.

....

Color me extremely fascinated at the notion of Eliwood / Limstella.

[thenicochan.livejournal.com]

I need to do this meme. *curiously peeks at your LJ...friends only...leaves downtrodden*

[samuraiter.livejournal.com]

*tinkers*

Try it now. :-)

[thenicochan.livejournal.com]

You're the best! Thank you! :D

[hooves.livejournal.com]

There's this really awesome thing... Friending. :P

[shining-valor.livejournal.com]

[Twitches]

No, no! Must not touch the gun... No killing of people because of disagreements, my pretty!

~

I grant that you have points in some of your explanations. Yes, you do have points. Some I even agree with. Except Hector/Lyn in any capacity. This rubs me the wrong way and causes reactions such as the above.

[Though I must confess to a very strong preference for Hector/Lyn for political reasons. I am not terribly taken with either Lyn or Hector as personalities (no, really) and their "courtship" contains some elements that annoy me. But Lyn's various endings irk me greatly with regards to the fate of Caelin, and I much prefer the idea that Caelin passes to Lyn's own daughter rather than believing that, after fighting a struggle over her rights to Caelin in which people died, including decent people who were on the wrong side, she just "pulls a Nyna" and runs away to suit her own interests. The idea that Lilina's ultimate role of unifying all of Lycia begins literally at home, with the union of her father's Ostia and her mother's Caelin, also pleases me.]

Bah, if you look at the way things go, you'll find that Lyn originally has no plans for staying in Caelin - the turn towards Caelin rides upon two knightly lads who bear news of a sick grandfather. That was what really turned her focus towards the tiny canton. In fact, had Lundgren not interfered, its a possibility that she may have even bypassed Caelin altogether after a short visit (though she probably would have made a point in visiting the ancestral holdings from time to time.) And if you recall, the driving focus of the journey was to eventually come back and crush the bandits that had taken away her parents and clan.

(Also, someone mentioned Lyn's selfishness in a reply post I think. Is it truly Lyn's selfishness, or is it the selfishness of certain folk in Caelin? After all, "Champion Roland...His heirs become the lords of the Lycian League..." would make it so there are plenty of potential inheritors of the bloodline, although mayhap not in direct descent from the Hausen/Lundgren part of the tree.)

:P

Ignore my grumpiness - I still think you make a lot of good points amongst the ones that I rabidly disagree with. Having different points of view makes for diverse fiction, which is a good thing.

So yeah, never mind me...

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

In the interest of keeping my vital parts intact...

Is it truly Lyn's selfishness, or is it the selfishness of certain folk in Caelin?

For me, it pretty much boils down to "don't have people die over your birthright if you don't plan to honor what you bought with their blood." Now, as a total outsider to Lycia, Lyn might not have known what she was getting into... but hell, Alm in FE2 had no idea what he was getting himself into and he manned up and accepted responsibility for things. It's part of the whole noblesse oblige deal, IMO.

Now, again, as an outsider to the whole system, Lyn is a more sympathetic figure than Princess Nyna, who just fails at life, love, and statecraft by the standards of her birthright. And no, Lyn didn't provoke Lundgren's little war. But, again... Alm didn't ask to have his homeland invaded, either. He was duped, just as Lyn was manipulated into events.

I don't put Lyn in the same bin as Nyna (for whom I feel pity on a good day and outright contempt the rest of the time). But I feel quite ambivalent about her... not least because she was retconned into pre-existing canon, making her options for the future rather limited. She has to disappear, whether into Sacae, an early grave, or both. None of it really sits well with me, both on a in-world level and a meta level.

[shining-valor.livejournal.com]

Ah, don't worry about yourself - I already said I won't do anything to hurt you. Just kinda been on the wrong end of a headache all day... so it kind of leaves me on edge and with weird and non-translatable humor. Fail me.

To be honest, I don't really like the whole retcon myself. It does restrict things and basically makes the characters seem like cannon (canon) fodder to support the story. Anyway, don't take my grumbling too seriously - I do respect people having opposing opinions to mine.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

"don't have people die over your birthright if you don't plan to honor what you bought with their blood."

Actually, this one of the controversies I intend to use in my novelization, but your wording is much better than anything I could come up with. I think for Lyn this would occur toward the beginning of her journey to Caelin.

1.) She just wants to see her grandfather.

2.) But people are dying because of it.

3.) If she turned back, her grandfather would probably die, but Kent and Sain, the tactician, and whoever else has joined the party would live. Not to mention Kent and Sain's comrades that they had to fight and kill themselves. :[

4.) But I think after seeing her parents and people die, she'd want to save her grandfather. However, by agreeing to it, I don't think she'd realize she was (like I said above) getting everyone's hopes up about her staying. Kent and Sain never said anything about that to her, but I think by even SHOWING UP in Caelin? She's unknowingly agreeing to stick around. For a while? Sure. But forever? No. Like I said to Trevor, though, after a couple of years, after learning and everything...would she really think people would still assume she wanted to go back home? (Especially if she managed to cover up any homesickness?)

/blahblahblah forever, sorry.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

I mentioned Lyn's selfishness! :P

And I love her.

But let me explain a bit further. I don't QUITE agree with Mark-- I do feel that Lyn had no intention of taking the throne from the beginning, and I think people (ie: Kent, Sain, Wil, Wallace, etc) knew it. HOWEVER.

She sticks around. A year? And then travels some more, maybe another year. So I think by then most people are kinda thinking that she's going to stick around. Characters like Wil and Kent, who seem happy serving her/fighting for Caelin (and maybe Heath, too) would, I think, be disappointed at the news of her decision to leave. ie: She stuck around and got their hopes up. Knowingly? Who knows. She talks to a random stranger that she found on the plains AFTER HER PEOPLE WERE SLAUGHTERED. <--what.

I don't think she's a horrible, selfish person. I LOVE LYN. But I do think that by sticking around so long, and by learning things like manners and dancing and whatever else she had to learn, that she was (perhaps mistakenly) giving people the impression that she was there to stay.

And MAYBE somewhere along the way she wanted to. Who knows? I actually see Lyn herself as feeling very conflicted over the matter. Once her grandfather dies, she has no real reason to stay. Sure you could say "love" (ie: Kent or the tactician or something who might like Caelin and/or want to stay there), but I dunno, I don't think she'd be happy staying and ruling. I don't really think she'd be good at it.

[penandpaper71.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to see this meme end for you. I've enjoyed reading it. ^_^

Harken/Isadora is one of those pairings that I've gone back and forth on (I liked it for a while, but I less enthralled by it these days. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, I suppose, but Isadora's character makes me nervous. On rereads of their supports, she doesn't come off sounding terribly emotionally stable and, admittedly, Harken has his own issues that make me wonder how well he'd fare in a relationship. I'm at the point were I'm not sure that I'm totally comfortable pairing either off with anybody without some further development for their characters. Maybe if they worked through their issues after the war it could work out, but I can't imagine that they're going to just go home, get married, and live happily ever after. On the other hand, it might be interesting to try to work through the issues with their relationship in fic.

I've actually never liked Nino/Jaffar and I feel quite alone in this. I think that it's Jaffar's personality that turns me off of it. I don't see someone like Jaffar simply being healed because of love. He's in no way ready for a relationship during/ by the end of the war and I think it would take a fair amount of effort to get him to a place where he would be ready for one (Assuming that he isn't already too badly emotionally damaged), but, then again, this one ends poorly anyway, so perhaps that doesn't matter.

I also agree with a lot of your thoughts on the whole pairing Eliwood with anyone who isn't Ninian.

Posted again because I didn't like how something was phrased. My apologies.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Harken/Isadora is like the madhouse version of Astram/Midia. Astram and Midia have problems, IMO, but they don't appear to know it and don't see anything wrong in one another. Harken and Isadora have all that cranked up exponentially. They're a mess and I don't see things ending well for them. It's no wonder one of her options is a convent.

I don't see someone like Jaffar simply being healed because of love.

You know, I think you summed up quite succinctly why I don't like this pairing. I don't buy it. I don't like or believe in the mechanism of Jaffar's redemption. End of story. Thank you!