FE12 and Stuff

[mark_asphodel]

 Today was not the greatest day.  Somebody got injured at work, plus one of my direct subordinates is having his bi-monthly meltdown and I had to talk him down from the metaphorical tree again.  This always makes me pretty angry.

I need to stop looking for information about FE12, because what I'm finding just disturbs me.

This piece of fanart pretty much sums up my feelings about Abel and Est in light of FE12.  Yes, that's Nino and the twins, but the treatment of the subject matter-- let's sprinkle pretty purple flowers on top of despair!-- applies to this situation as well.  

In related wtf-ery, this thread over at SerenesForum tackles a topic that seems to bother a number of fans-- why the four captive priestesses in FE3/12 can't be recruited by alternate options (Michalis for Maria, Matthis for Lena, and so on). Aside from the obvious answer "Coz Matthis sucks at everything," one of the posters there let off with this little gem:

"Elice doesn't think very highly of Marth.  To her, he's an idealist who can't do anything without the help of others...somebody to be protected, not somebody to rely on."  

Allegedly Elice drops this bombshell in her Prologue conversation with MyUnit.  And I'm scratching my head at this point, because if Marth is so useless, why does everybody and their kid sister cede power to him, again?  Seriously, IS... this looks more and more like an intentional dystopia.

Comments

[penandpaper71.livejournal.com]

I'm still hoping that it's a mistranslation issue and not... the issue that I suspect that it is. Because otherwise I'm really, really annoyed.

It's funny because that question about saving the priestesses is one that I've asked myself before, but that explanation was one that I never occurred to me before (I still don't see where it implies elsewhere in canon that Elice doesn't believe in her brother) and it's one that I don't like.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

It's funny because that question about saving the priestesses is one that I've asked myself before, but that explanation was one that I never occurred to me before

Well, I'd gone over that one myself more than once. The simplest explanation, to me, for why Marth couldn't recruit Elice was that she'd realized that she wasn't the most important person in his life (as demonstrated when she trades her own freedom for Caeda's) anymore and the, er, "support bond" between them was downgraded accordingly. Just a part of growing up, y'know?

But more than a few fanboys have read something sinister into their relationship in FE3. This SerenesForest poster might be one of those fanboys, predisposed to see the worst in it.

[samuraiter.livejournal.com]

And why did Elice tell this to My Unit, of all people? @_@

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

'Cause MyUnit knows jack shit and everybody has to play Mr. and Miss Exposition to him/her/it.

Of course, Marth relies heavily on the advice of MyUnit, so I am willing to suspect the boy is not right in the head this time around. I'm just rather shocked to hear that opinion coming from his own sister.

[myaru.livejournal.com]

I must be the only person in the fandom who thought Elice was as condescending to Marth as she was to Merric. There was something about her dialogue bothered me, though I don't recall any point where she criticizes her brother either. It's what she doesn't say, maybe - the impression she gave me was one of a protective, indulgent older sister, and it would be big-sisterly to consider her brother weaker, while perhaps she's the one who should be relied on.

So, these are all just impressions I remember from when I first played through FE11. I'd have to finish my second playthrough to know if it's really something embedded in the new characterization, or if my first impression was off.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

I must be the only person in the fandom who thought Elice was as condescending to Marth as she was to Merric.

Yeah, but that makes sense in the Prologue when he's all of fourteen and clearly can't do much of anything on his own. I didn't notice anything amiss in their dialogue after she's rescued... though, I admit, I was reading their interactions with filters on. Fannish portrayals had led me to expect the usual Fire Emblem incest vibes, and their dynamic seemed so utterly normal that I didn't see anything odd in their relationship.

Elice does tell Marth that she's proud of him in FE3... if you get the bad ending. Hmm. I don't think she says anything if you get the good ending.

Yeah, this is fucked up.

[shimizu-hitomi.livejournal.com]

This is accurate if I remember correctly, but the tone was entirely different (Elice is just being protective, not so much condescending as this poster seems to imply), and I read it as supporting the whole "hero of light" vs. "hero of shadows" thing they keep emphasizing throughout this whole remake. Marth is the untouchable innocent who mustn't be stained, while MU is the one who needs to get their hands dirty.

Given Marth's characterization in localized Shadow Dragon, I don't know how they're going to handle this. :P

Alright, opened up event recap, and I think myaru's impressions are mostly spot on.

MU says it's an honor to serve under the Hero King, Elice remarks that the "true Marth" is just a weak kid who gets hurt easily.

MU's like, "weak??"

Elice explains that he's idealistic and strong-willed.

[quick loose translation] "But you should know very well what it's like in the real world... [it's not a world] that can be saved through ideals alone."

Elice then remarks that even now, there might be citizens out there somewhere losing their lives whom they aren't even aware of. And that Marth can't save those people.

MU [loosely]: "Even the kindest lord is no omnipotent god."

And then I think something along the lines of "even though the king may be above the people, there are still limits to what he can accomplish."

Elice says something like, "Yes, exactly. Most people, realizing the truth, must establish a compromise between their ideals and reality." But Marth is incapable of doing that because he truly wants to save every last person. Even in battle he'd take it really hard if just one of his soldiers fell. (ORLY LOLOLOL) And so despite his strong will, he bears a lot of wounds in his heart or something yeah.

"Maintaining his ideals in this harsh world will be very difficult for him..." (I get the feeling that this is all blatant foreshadowing re: Hardin.)

Elice closes off by asking MU to protect Marth, yes, but specifically for MU to protect his idealism.

.....

As for the priestesses, Michalis (duh) is the one that bothers me the most, because in FE3 HIS WHOLE ENTIRE MOTIVATION/REDEMPTIVE ARC REVOLVED AROUND MARIA.

Matthis/Lena doesn't surprise me much though as I never got the sense that they were particularly close. They don't seem to have grown up together (which would make sense given Lena's designer notes backstory I guess) and at one point I was convinced they were half siblings, but I can't remember what my reasoning for that was anymore.

I think Elice is a fascinating character personally but man, there is so much about her canon depiction that is so. Messed. Up.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the elucidation!

Given Marth's characterization in localized Shadow Dragon, I don't know how they're going to handle this. :P

No kidding. This is making him out of be worse than he was in FE3 a feat previously only accomplished by the anime, and uh... yeah, those were two incompatible characterizations.

"Most people, realizing the truth, must establish a compromise between their ideals and reality"

Uh, yeah. This was going on in FE11. We saw that taking place. Unless NoA pulled that whole characterization out of thin air.

But Marth is incapable of doing that because he truly wants to save every last person.

All right, we're back to the old Idiot Messiah trope. Goddammit, I despise that archetype.

because in FE3 HIS WHOLE ENTIRE MOTIVATION/REDEMPTIVE ARC REVOLVED AROUND MARIA.

Is the fact that he can't recruit her after all a clue that the whole thing is a pisstake?

I think Elice is a fascinating character personally but man, there is so much about her canon depiction that is so. Messed. Up.

Word. I'm just... disturbed. I'm gonna go play something nice and friendly and non-headfucky like Flower Sun and Rain now.

[shimizu-hitomi.livejournal.com]

Is the fact that he can't recruit her after all a clue that the whole thing is a pisstake?

Ugh, I'm kind of beginning to suspect so. At least in FE12-land. It would make sense with what FE12's given us for Michalis characterization in his new dialogue.

Though I half suspect still that it's just sheer laziness on the part of IS -- or at least, I'd LIKE to stand by my continuing theory that Michalis recruitment is just an Easter Egg/joke and canonically he still dies. But given how much they changed elsewhere in terms of recruitment, the omission seems particularly glaring.

[penandpaper71.livejournal.com]

The translation is definitely appreciated. Thank you! ^_^

Sadly though, it doesn't really relieve any of my reservations about this. Elice still appears to be treating Marth like he's a silly child who needs protecting from the world. He's nineteen and presumably led an army to victory in the first war (He's dealt with making tough decisions because making huge and often very unpleasant decisions is a part of war). If he's incapable of making the necessary decisions to be a ruler, then he shouldn't be king of anything. The way Elice speaks about him, he sounds more like he's headed to become a figurehead (If he isn't already treated that way in the game) rather then a ruler, which I find unsettling.

Then there is still the whole issue of why she would be undermining her brother's authority by babbling all this to a brand new recruit, who they have no reason to trust outside of "his/her word" which means nothing until it's proven to be worth something.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

He's dealt with making tough decisions because making huge and often very unpleasant decisions is a part of war

We SAW him making competent and rational decisions based on the information at hand in the previous war. Yeah, he was over his head in a few places. But... seriously. Are FE11 and FE12 AU with regard to one another?

The way Elice speaks about him, he sounds more like he's headed to become a figurehead rather then a ruler

In which case, why do Nyna, Minerva, and Sheema all need to step aside?

who they have no reason to trust outside of "his/her word" which means nothing until it's proven to be worth something.

Hey, it's not like the Altean army would ever recruit dodgy characters who are actually secret spies and assassins...

Oh. Wait. My bad.