Jugdral Wibbles

[mark_asphodel]

 I'm attempting to fill one of the one-word prompts per day, preferably in order of request.  If you want to request anything, the post is here.

I didn't volunteer to write for Jugdral on this one, even though I cop to being one of the people who complains that there's not enough Jugdral 'fic out there.  I seem to have a mental block on writing anything for it, outside of making Leaf "the squishy one" in various mash-ups.  And I tell myself that it's because the game scripts are too involved to grasp without actually playing through them, that playing them will take up too much time, that if I really want to write Jugdral with the depth that kittykatloren  and sarajayechan  bring to it then I really ought to read the mangas... all of them.  And I tell myself that the people who love Jugdral really love it and I need to do it justice if I ever to take a stab at it.

Basically, I tell myself that the canon is too intimidating and I'm not ready for it.

I think I'm lying to myself.  It's because I don't like most of the characters.  I don't want to write them.

The situations that these characters are in, particularly with the generational themes playing out, made the characters initially seem awesome to me.  You don't have to manufacture darkness, or invent parental losses or sibling separation or any other plot points o'drama.  It's there.  The parent-child relationships have a built-in resonance that you have to kind of work at for most second-gen Elibe characters, IMO.  And the happy endings and the reunions and such are there, too, especially if you decide to run with some of the more cracked-out things that the designers came up with, like resurrecting Tiltyu after keeping her on ice for a while.  Great material.

I still don't like most of these characters.  I want to kick a lot of them, including Tiltyu.  And Sylvia.  And others, like Claude and Eltoshan, really... don't interest me on anything beyond an abstract level.  My single favorite first-gen character in FE4 is probably Levin, and I like him best as Tactician!Levin... who isn't really Levin.  But he's cool.  I think the Thracia/Lenster gang and the Silesians are the only characters I actually like.

Basically, if these characters weren't in such complex and "dramatic" situations, I think I'd like them even less than I do.  Like some of the FE7 characters I don't care for, it's the existence of a canonical destiny for them that gives them the apparent weight they have.  Out of context, they just don't do it for me.

Argue away, 'cause I want to like them and write for them.  I'm just... so not feeling the love for these people.

Comments

[amielleon]

Lack of instantly appreciable canonical depth is what keeps me from engaging fully with Jugdral. It has one amazing overarching plot -- well, more precisely, it has one damn awesome twist -- but I don't really care for its players, with the exception of Levin and Alvis, and maybe Altenna and/or Arion.

I've been meaning to do something with Alvis for awhile, but I haven't figured out what.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah, Alvis and Azel are cool too.

I think what burns me the most is that there are so many "strong female" characters, and yet I find them either meh or downright dislikable. FE2 did better in a handful of lines than FE4 did in pages and pages of conversation, IMO.

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

Eh, sometimes it happens. You wanna like something, but you just...can't really make it work. It was like that for me with A Song of Ice and Fire, I wanted to like it cause I'd heard nothing but good things about it, but...well, it was too hard to keep up and the characters didn't really move me as much as I thought, with the exception of Jon and Arya and Sansa in a few places.

Personally I've ended up liking all the FE4 playable characters (even Beowulf, who I wanted to slap for the longest time), both in and out of the context of FE4's canon.

You mentioned Eltoshan above...what are your thoughts on him remaining loyal to King Shagall even knowing the man's a prick? TVTropes actually listed him as lawful stupid for that one, so apparently a lot of people think he's an idiot.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

I think I like Beowulf more than some of the other characters. I dunno... it's like, Jesse and Jenny in FE2 engaged me more with a few snippets of dialogue than most of the FE4 cast do in the entire game.

so apparently a lot of people think he's an idiot.

Does TVTropes really imply any sort of consensus? Isn't that like Wikipedia where anyone can add anything?

Anyway, I don't think about it, really. It's (VERY) like Camus being loyal to the king who's destroying his own kingdom-- it generates conflict and keeps the plot moving. If I liked Elto half as much as I like Camus (and I don't much like Camus), I might have a deeper opinion on it, but my main thoughts on Elto involve whether or not he and Lachesis were doin' it. The answer being, Yes.

[amielleon]

Does TVTropes really imply any sort of consensus?

Personally I find TVTropes extremely dubious, especially concerning smaller fandoms (like ours). I have seen more stupid questionable statements than I can count, a particularly interesting example being Shinon and Gatrie being listed under Heterosexual Life Partners, when they went separate ways and worked for two different employers at war after leaving the Mercenaries, and Gatrie can do nothing to persuade Shinon to change sides.

Yeah. Life partners. Totally.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Life partners. Totally.

Cain and Abel got cited, too, IIRC. Because having Abel shack up with some chick and then RUN AWAY forever, while Cain sticks with Marth his entire life, is also an example of being "Life Partners."

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

Because having Abel shack up with some chick and then RUN AWAY forever, while Cain sticks with Marth his entire life, is also an example of being "Life Partners."
I LOL'd.

[kyusil.livejournal.com]

Basically if two guys are friends, tropers will call HLP. I take the examples on that website with a grain of salt, because a lot of the people posting them have very tentative grasps on what they're talking about.

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

Come to think of it, I've seen Lyon mentioned as a Badass Bookworm despite the fact that he's not really that badass at all, given his bad health.

[amielleon]

I can think of a lot of reasons why Lyon is not a Badass Bookworm.

[raphiael]

I saw Lyon and Knoll cited as Dark Magical Girls.
I headdesked.
/creeping on old entries

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

Does TVTropes really imply any sort of consensus? Isn't that like Wikipedia where anyone can add anything?

True. I just checked the page and now he's listed under "Honor Before Reason" which to me seems more like an unbiased view of him. I guess SOME fans might think he's stupid, with or without mentioning it on TVTropes.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

That sounds like it fits Elto and Camus both. Camus is not a reasonable man in ANY of his morphs.

[raphiael]

I have a similar problem with Jugdral, myself. I'm very character-oriented, I guess. If there isn't a character right away who I really like, I can't get invested at all.

I really did like Azel, and his situation with Alvis is fascinating. Actually I was talking with Sara Jaye about expanding a 1-sentence thing I did for them on the anon meme, just yesterday.

But. . . that was about it, for me. Everyone else was like, "meh", so it was hard for me to get into the vast world and story going on there.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I forgot about poor Azel. I like him, too.

[Oh, so you did that awesome fill? I would love to see more along those lines.]

The story is great. The world is fascinating. But the characters just don't... I don't even know what it is, other than their personalities grate on me. Or they're really bland, maybe. It's not like with Colm, where I can say, "He fits too neatly into a cliche I don't like to begin with, and doesn't seem to ever get above that." But they talk, and they interact, and stuff happens, and I just really don't care.

[raphiael]

Yes, that was me. I dunno about awesome, but thank you. I'm definitely hoping to work it into, ahhh, something. At some point.

I feel pretty much the same way. I want to like it, I really do, but. . . yeah.

As someone else said, the fact that a good deal of the personal conflict is based around the Sigurd/Diadora pairing doesn't really help. Among the most unmoving main pairings I can think of for me, to be honest.

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

I've never really cared much for Jugdral myself, despite trying to like it. I could never get into the game and there's too much canon to go through and look at (scripts, manga volumes, etc.) and aside from a couple of characters, I really don't care about Jugdral.

Which sucks because I want to like it. :/ But I just don't see the love for these characters.

[shimizu-hitomi.livejournal.com]

Can't help much because despite my overall fondness of the cast, the characters I'm really interested in are pretty much the same characters you like. That said, I'm not very fond of the fan translation of FE4, or at least one of the earlier translations (there are so many versions floating around, I can't keep track) -- that one took a lot of liberties and did a SERIOUS disservice to a lot of characters. Sylvia especially. (There is one script particularly invested in making Sylvia come off as the bitchiest, flakiest character in the game for some reason, I swear.) I mean, despite the awkwardness of the FE3 translation, at least it made an effort to remain faithful to the text instead of making really bizarre "localization" choices. /rant rant rant

Despite everything, I do like the Elto/Cuan/Sigurd friendship though because that hits a lot of my friendship kinks (I just wish it had been elaborated on more in game). And Lachesis and all her weird relationships. And Brigid, but I'm influenced by FE5 in that regard. I think Ayra is cool, but she doesn't interest me much... Shanan actually does interest me (and I like his friendship with Oifaye as an adult), but he's one of the characters who needs to be approached from a very specific angle I suspect. Isaac is one of those kingdoms where there is so much unmined potential imo.

ANyway, I actually like FE5 more than I like FE4 because I think where FE4 is broad, FE5 is deeper and more intimate in some ways. A lot of the worldbuilding is expounded on in FE5 and it's pretty fascinating (to me). Not to mention Thracia is filled with some of my favorite character archetypes. :P

FE4's one biggest weakness imo is that the Sigurd/Deirdre relationship is a MAJOR foundation of the entire game.... but it is one hell of a weak foundation. And all the relationships/characters that spiral out from that base point end up kind of iffy as a result as well.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

that one took a lot of liberties and did a SERIOUS disservice to a lot of characters.

Good to know.

Shanan actually does interest me (and I like his friendship with Oifaye as an adult)

Shanan interests me, but I don't know what to do with him. Ditto Oifaye (who is the most boring tactician I've ever seen during his stint in the role).

FE5 is deeper and more intimate in some ways.

I really need to do more than just data-mine the FE5 script occasionally. And I guess it's not a coincidence that the Jugdral characters I feel something for happen to mostly be the ones featured in FE5. I mean, between Briggid and Adean, I'm FAR more interested in Briggid.

FE4's one biggest weakness imo is that the Sigurd/Deirdre relationship is a MAJOR foundation of the entire game

Hah. That's a problem too, for sure. But I already knew way back that Sigurd/Deirdre wasn't doing it for me, but I was surprised to find how few characters out of the FE4 cast I really gave a damn about. It's a far cry from 2 or 8 in that regard.

[shimizu-hitomi.livejournal.com]

I was surprised to find how few characters out of the FE4 cast I really gave a damn about

You know, after the initial shininess of the plot/world wore off, I did find myself losing interest fast, and I do think that has to do with the characters. I find them all likable (except maybe Tiltyu, who is kind of meh all around to me, despite her depressing and sympathetic storyline), but as time goes on I realize I'm just not that invested in them. But the characters I'm truly invested in, I'm REALLY invested in, which I think more than balances it out for me.

It really is Thracia that reignited my passion for the universe, I suspect. Funnily enough, something similar happened to me with Elibe; I imprinted on FE7 and had a hard time warming up to FE6 (I did not have a hard time warming up to FE5, but like I said, the story is ALL ABOUT some of my favorite character archetypes so I'm totally biased), but I've pretty much mellowed out on the majority of the FE7 cast while FE6 keeps me going.

[samuraiter.livejournal.com]

FE4 is the most lauded game in the series, as far as the oldsters are concerned, but, every time I think about it, a little voice in the back of my head says, "What about all the underappreciated JRPGs you play that have been translated and released in the U.S.?" I've no doubt that I'd enjoy the heck out of it if I played it at length, but I just don't feel the drive, you know?

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Part of what's kept me from attempting the game is the horrible things I've heard about glitches and incomprehensible translations.

I've no reason to doubt that it's a great game. But the characters in it, IMO, do not catch my fancy the way the FE2, FE8, or Archanea characters do. And a lot of the interest I do have comes down to who's banging whom, which is normally not my main area of concern.