Star Trek and Fire Emblem

[mark_asphodel]

This article from Wired makes excellent points about Star Trek into Darkness.  It's ALL spoilers, so beware, but read it even if you don't plan to see the film because the core weakness of the Trek reboot is-- surprise, surprise, surprise-- awfully close to the core weakness of recent Fire Emblem games.

[I repeat.  I enjoyed the film.  I wouldn't necessarily see it again, but I'll likely see the next one when it inevitably comes to theatres.]

I was making comparisons between Trek 2009 and FE12/13 even before seeing the current Trek flick, but IMO the analogy is even stronger now.

ETA: Here is a very different critique which points out that reboot Trek is missing the whole literary angle that infused previous iterations of Trek.  If you don't wanna read it, I'll quote the final lines: 

I also recognized Kirk and Spock, and Picard and all the other good Trek folks had read way more books than me. And guess what? I wanted to be just like them.

That is an excellent point.

Comments

[samuraiter]

Ryotaro Robin: "Well, I know FE13 is definitely about the slash."
Chrom: *sage nod*
Gaius: *random jump-in* "CHROOOOOOM!"
Chrom & Robin: ^_^;

[kyusil]

I remember talking to my sister after seeing Into Darkness, and she'd said that she felt the main thrust of the film was Abrams broadcasting to Star Wars fans that he could handle their material just fine. I think he proved his point brilliantly, though at the expense of the Trek "feel." Maybe once he has the Star Wars universe to play around in, then the Star Trek films will fit their own (more cerebral) niche a little better, but then again that might be a little too optimistic.

True sci-fi and action aren't mutually exclusive, but TV and games are easily better media for weaving them together.

[mark_asphodel]

After what Lucas did to SW I'm perfectly happy to see Abrams take the helm of that particular ship.

[raphiael]

Yeah, sounds familiar, for sure.

I don't know much about Star Trek at all -- without that knowledge/investment, do you think the movies are still worth checking out?

[the_geek]

Most definitely so. Some of the nods to TOS might go over your head, but it doesn't take too much out of the experience.

[mark_asphodel]

If you enjoyed the Avengers you should enjoy this one and the 2009 one a great deal. Perfectly cast, with engaging characters and witty dialogue that'll make even a relative stoic laugh out loud? Yes. Big stupid dumb stupid action sequences filled with carnage you're not supposed to think about very hard? Yes.

It's Avengers in space. You may enjoy it more for not knowing what's being changed/ripped off/recycled.

Also, the difference between STiD and Wrath of Khan is awfully reminiscent of the essential difference between FE4 and FE13. :/

[the_geek]

Geez, reading the comments on that article was brutal. I forgot how anal "true fans" can be.

[mark_asphodel]

Some comments were pretty good. On scrolling down I began to feel my brain leaking out of my ears.

[samuraiter]

Star Trek fans: The creators of modern fandom, but also the frequent equivalent of a fart in the fandom elevator.

[jsnd]

I have never watched the thing

But one - three paragraphs in....

"She doesn’t do anything except get used—unsuccessfully—as a bargaining chip"
http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Maribelle

"hura remains a badass, but unfortunately she’s been overcome with a case of Generic Lady Motivation. Specifically, Not Being Able to Shut Up About Relationship Stuff."
http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Cordelia

The badass part is, of course (un)debatably wrong

"every significant change and character development has fallen prey to the Teflon status quo, wiped away to make room for the next low-stakes adventure of the Now That We’ve Established the New Continuity Nothing Will Ever Really Change."

"The cheap cheap cheap cheap stupid cheap fucking cheap you-insult-me-sir ending."


Conclusion: The story writer are the staff who made the second part of Awakening!


I guess


P.S. if you don't mind the question, is the problem with FE12 largely comes from Michalis and the awful support convo?

[mark_asphodel]

The story writer are the staff who made the second part of Awakening!

Yes, pretty much.

P.S. if you don't mind the question, is the problem with FE12 largely comes from Michalis and the awful support convo? Well, in a nutshell, everything I had misgivings about in FE12 was taken and amplified in FE13.

Plot hijacked by the player-insert character for no apparent reason beyond stroking the ego of the player? Yes, and Kris isn't even as well-written a protagonist as Robin.

Characters "developed" by means of flat, gimmicky, pointless support conversations, most of them with the dull-as-dirt self-insert? Yes, and FE12 has too damn many characters to start with.

These characters are "developed" by slapping on tropes and "archetypical" traits so they feel less like 3D versions of the original 20-year-old characters and more like Frankenstein monsters pieced together using bits from mid-period FE games? In many cases, yes. FE13 may actually be better about this particular flaw, though Cordelia stands out to me as particularly, deliberately, bad.

Nuances of world-building and mythology omitted for no good reason? Yes, unless all extant fan-translations did the script a disservice. And what's downright awful in FE13? World-building and mythology! I'm guessing the current writers just aren't interested.

A villain whose character arc resolved perfectly in death instead gets a reprieve because he's sexy or something-- in a way that undercuts (again) the original morality of the plot? Yes. I hated it then and I still hate it now.

Those are the main points. :/

[jsnd]

"Nuances of world-building and mythology omitted for no good reason? Yes, unless all extant fan-translations did the script a disservice. And what's downright awful in FE13? World-building and mythology! I'm guessing the current writers just aren't interested."

I kinda did not understand this one, maybe for FE12. The game did a lot of myth explanation and stuff, and FE3, from what I recalled is identical in this regards(albeit somewhat more justified for being an SNES game, I guess).

For FE13, IMO they did quite a good job on Gangrel and thats it(not sure if the future past DLC has anything regarding this though)

[mark_asphodel]

I kinda did not understand this one, maybe for FE12. The game did a lot of myth explanation and stuff, and FE3, from what I recalled is identical in this regards(albeit somewhat more justified for being an SNES game, I guess).

There were things in FE3 that were not in fan-translations I have read of FE12, like the "small" detail about King Adrah of Archanea being a thug who trashed the Shield of Seals-- a detail that makes it clear that Nyna is really NOT the legitimate ruler of Archanea in a "divine right" sense and that yes, everything should go to Marth (the descendant of a legitimate hero). If that really isn't in the FE12 script, that's just weird.

But then again everything in FE12 doesn't go to Marth because Michalis can live. :/

[rjwalker]

I definitely recall that detail being there. Problem is, I'm pretty sure it was in chapter openings during the world map sections and those parts of the script haven't been added to Serenes Forest's script.

[rjwalker]

A villain whose character arc resolved perfectly in death instead gets a reprieve because he's sexy or something-- in a way that undercuts (again) the original morality of the plot?

Eh, Michalis surviving the events of FE1/FE3Book1/FE11 seemed like a case of this anyway so I'm too angry about his second survival.

[mark_asphodel]

But he still ultimately died. Redeemed, yes, but most definitely dead.

In Kaga-era FE, you didn't get away with being a cold-blooded murderer, however well-intentioned. Not Arvis, not Travant, not Ishtar, and certainly not Michalis. His original character arc-- repentance, death, and leaving Macedon to Marth-- worked for me. His new arc of not-repenting very much, not-dying, and conquering some other land just pisses me off.

[amielleon]

The sudden loss of mythology was a pretty weird development come FE12, because yes okay I'm biased but I'll swear up and down that Tellius had an exceptionally strong sense of mythology (and its relation to history!) which was central to its plot.

[gilasen]

Honestly, I say Awakening's lack of worldbuilding was at least partly from wanting to keep things in the setting like Grima's backstory open enough so that there would be something to cover in a followup to Awakening.

[mark_asphodel]

That may be, but Awakening was disappointing enough that it leaves me with no desire whatsoever to play a sequel/prequel sidestory. Clearly many players do not agree, but if the next game has anything to do with the Awakening plot I will, at most, buy it used.

I Think both have the same problem but different Answer

[knmc]

For me somehow i agreed with your point that both franchise, being heavily characther driven(don't tell us lies, the setting in both stories is for giving background to the characthers, the true money in both franchise is characther relationship and development), but the answer for why both modern take in the series fill like trying to much like the original, have a simple answer....

THE FANS DEMAND TO BE LIKE IT.

You know, I've never watch star trek but i was was of William Shatner..how? Boston Legal, that make me watch star trek and when watch if felt... that was danny craig as space captain(them make the opposite).

Something similar happen, since Kaga was Fired(one of the few men who can mention that he was fired from Nintendo), The Remain of IS was divided to make keep the franchise alive and they made it, with FE6 who in spirit is a better remake of FE1 Than FE11, and make Roy such Likable characther by not making so much like marth(but more similar to both Seliph and Leif) and giving some good characther development, but some fans demand something more like the original

I think the Tellius Saga was the whole thing making the thing so much old school... and the game bombs, they think the answer was revisited kaga works... and bomb even harder(by DS userbase, FE 11 & 12 Performance was pathethic)

FE13 who i fell like 'using the past' and 'embracing the modernity' was much better in every aspect, even in somehow history suffer(thanks to be like the past).

For FE14(either 3DS or WIIU) i think they should goes more original, dont' be shy of a My Unit Lord or break the mold even more, that would be the chance to finnaly leave the past and maybe improve the 23th year old franchise.

Maybe when JJ leave and the new writter(Star trek 13 will be the last one of JJ) will make better use of that.