Regarding Seth
Apr. 11th, 2012 03:58 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mark_asphodelI wasn't going to touch this subject, but damned if it doesn't keep coming up in different forms of media.
I like Seth as a unit and as a character. Like him a lot, in an "I can potentially identify with this guy kind of way." And from the beginning, I kind of connected him with Cain in the way that Cain's shown in FE3, where he's not Red Cav anymore but is instead a trusted senior knight/advisor, a right-hand-man, the guy Marth leaves in charge of Altea when Marth goes off chasing trouble. [Orson is the Abel to Seth's Cain, with even worse results than Abel saw in FE3.]
But I stopped writing and exploring him and basically just left him alone for a while, because... reasons. The things I liked about Seth, and found interesting about him, didn't seem to be the reasons that fandom overall was interested in him, plus I caught a general sense that Seth was overemphasized into a "semi-protagonist"[*]-- placed above his station, so to speak. And, since I liked Seth but didn't LOVE him, it wasn't worth the grief. I could just write about Cain or some other character that filled that same niche to me.
Part of it is, I think, the essential difference in the knight/Lord dynamic between Eirika's Route and Ephraim's. Eirika/Seth is a problematic pairing to me, but I really dig the interaction between reckless Ephraim and cool-headed Seth... and not in a sexual way (no thanks).
Japanese FE fandom had a very useful tip on understanding Seth, knight of Renais. Ammie helped translate it (and much else) for me.
"Don't make Seth into a pussy like Oscar."
I'll tell you, it was nice to see my own impressions of Seth being bolstered by J!fandom. Let's give a rundown as to why Seth is awesome, as listed by our counterparts across the ocean:
He's not a yes-man.
He knows when to be harsh.
He's a realist.
He's analytical.
I like analytical, realist characters with functioning brains. And the harshness-- or severity-- is kinda icky when it's used against Eirika, his potential romantic interest... but seems entirely fitting when he's acting as a foil to Ephraim. And I think that the romantic trappings that Seth is given as the fabled Silver Knight unintentionally mask that part of him in fanfic. He stops being the kind of guy who can say a line like this to his lord: "They're not cheering for you. They're cheering because Orson's misrule is at an end."
And he was, in light of the beta version, supposed to be even more harsh. He's assertive enough in his role as Eirika's "protector" that Eirika makes him back off from interrogating Saleh. Sure, he's really sweet with Franz and, uh, cajoles Natasha away from her calling. But if you want your paladins sweet and squishy, well... Geoffrey's your best bet.
Speaking of Geoffrey... as I said above, I mentally connected Seth to the older, more responsible version of Cain. I didn't see J!fen make that comparison, though I probably wasn't looking hard enough (c'mon-- red hair, Biblical name...). What I did find were comparisons to Geoffrey (naturally) and to Finn (technically not a paladin, but the same "type" of character). And what distinguishes Seth from those two would appear to be that fundamentally rational base to his character-- not emotion-driven, not faith-based.
[He's also more mature and "together" than Geoffrey and better-socialized than Finn, IMO, though Geoffrey has the potential excuse of being younger than Seth.]
Also, he's not a pussy. Sorry, Oscar.
Seth: great unit, great character, but it's probably best not to sand the edges of his character just to get him impossibly shiny. The edges are what make Seth who and what he is. :)
* Term that Google translate spit out during one of my dives into J!fandom (not regarding Seth) that seemed to me a fairly helpful term to distinguish your Caedas and Sothes from the actual main character of the game while setting them apart from the rest of the cast. Basically, if there's ever an FE8 spinoff that's along the lines of "Eirika and Seth's Awesome Zombie-Killing Adventures," then it's cricket to put Seth up there on a pedestal as Very Important, second only to the twins themselves. Otherwise... no, not really. Not with Innes and L'Arachel and the other plot-essential characters running around.
I like Seth as a unit and as a character. Like him a lot, in an "I can potentially identify with this guy kind of way." And from the beginning, I kind of connected him with Cain in the way that Cain's shown in FE3, where he's not Red Cav anymore but is instead a trusted senior knight/advisor, a right-hand-man, the guy Marth leaves in charge of Altea when Marth goes off chasing trouble. [Orson is the Abel to Seth's Cain, with even worse results than Abel saw in FE3.]
But I stopped writing and exploring him and basically just left him alone for a while, because... reasons. The things I liked about Seth, and found interesting about him, didn't seem to be the reasons that fandom overall was interested in him, plus I caught a general sense that Seth was overemphasized into a "semi-protagonist"[*]-- placed above his station, so to speak. And, since I liked Seth but didn't LOVE him, it wasn't worth the grief. I could just write about Cain or some other character that filled that same niche to me.
Part of it is, I think, the essential difference in the knight/Lord dynamic between Eirika's Route and Ephraim's. Eirika/Seth is a problematic pairing to me, but I really dig the interaction between reckless Ephraim and cool-headed Seth... and not in a sexual way (no thanks).
Japanese FE fandom had a very useful tip on understanding Seth, knight of Renais. Ammie helped translate it (and much else) for me.
"Don't make Seth into a pussy like Oscar."
I'll tell you, it was nice to see my own impressions of Seth being bolstered by J!fandom. Let's give a rundown as to why Seth is awesome, as listed by our counterparts across the ocean:
He's not a yes-man.
He knows when to be harsh.
He's a realist.
He's analytical.
I like analytical, realist characters with functioning brains. And the harshness-- or severity-- is kinda icky when it's used against Eirika, his potential romantic interest... but seems entirely fitting when he's acting as a foil to Ephraim. And I think that the romantic trappings that Seth is given as the fabled Silver Knight unintentionally mask that part of him in fanfic. He stops being the kind of guy who can say a line like this to his lord: "They're not cheering for you. They're cheering because Orson's misrule is at an end."
And he was, in light of the beta version, supposed to be even more harsh. He's assertive enough in his role as Eirika's "protector" that Eirika makes him back off from interrogating Saleh. Sure, he's really sweet with Franz and, uh, cajoles Natasha away from her calling. But if you want your paladins sweet and squishy, well... Geoffrey's your best bet.
Speaking of Geoffrey... as I said above, I mentally connected Seth to the older, more responsible version of Cain. I didn't see J!fen make that comparison, though I probably wasn't looking hard enough (c'mon-- red hair, Biblical name...). What I did find were comparisons to Geoffrey (naturally) and to Finn (technically not a paladin, but the same "type" of character). And what distinguishes Seth from those two would appear to be that fundamentally rational base to his character-- not emotion-driven, not faith-based.
[He's also more mature and "together" than Geoffrey and better-socialized than Finn, IMO, though Geoffrey has the potential excuse of being younger than Seth.]
Also, he's not a pussy. Sorry, Oscar.
Seth: great unit, great character, but it's probably best not to sand the edges of his character just to get him impossibly shiny. The edges are what make Seth who and what he is. :)
* Term that Google translate spit out during one of my dives into J!fandom (not regarding Seth) that seemed to me a fairly helpful term to distinguish your Caedas and Sothes from the actual main character of the game while setting them apart from the rest of the cast. Basically, if there's ever an FE8 spinoff that's along the lines of "Eirika and Seth's Awesome Zombie-Killing Adventures," then it's cricket to put Seth up there on a pedestal as Very Important, second only to the twins themselves. Otherwise... no, not really. Not with Innes and L'Arachel and the other plot-essential characters running around.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-12 10:51 pm (UTC)I think re: Geoffrey, that Geoffrey is not an overly assertive person. He's assertive but he has nervous energy if that makes sense? Like his pacing in-game. He's not super laid-back, but he's not super assertive, either. So he's more of a middleground type of guy IMO.
And yeah, I agree 110% on him being all HAY I HAVE ADVICE LISTEN and characters like Tana and Innes and others are like OH YEAH LET'S HEAR IT BRO. When he's not THAT important. I wish royalty would snub him in fic just oneeee time. It'd be so great. But he talks out of turn and it's okay...because it's Fire Emblem I guess. :P Seems to me like lots of knight characters do that.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-12 11:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-12 11:26 pm (UTC)Oh, yeah. That comes through.
I wish royalty would snub him in fic just oneeee time. It'd be so great.
If it's been done, it was probably Innes, and I'm sure Innes paid dearly for it by the end of the 'fic. ;P
Seems to me like lots of knight characters do that.
Yes. Well, it's a fine line to tread between "deference to royalty" and "making sure they don't kill themselves"... especially when the Lord characters in question are basically kids (younger Marth, Roy, Leaf). I don't count Eirika and Ephraim as kids, though, for reasons I've gone into before. And while some of the knight characters might tread the line, the canon Tacticians are usually blowing past that line without looking back, which is another reason saintly perfect FE7 tacticians annoy me.