Damned Archetypes

[mark_asphodel]

 So, I'm browsing through a treasure-trove of Japanese FE fanarts here, and I'm plowing happily through the FE8 section for a Seima fix when I stumble across this picture of a blue-haired Peg Knight and this blond dude with scars on his face.  And then it hits me.

Damn you, FE8.  I've been ripping on you all week for being FE3-in-a-blender, but tempering that criticism with comments about how much I love your characters.  And then it becomes apparent that the wonderfully sympathetic Cormag is, on some spiritual level, the second (or third, or fourth) coming of Ogma.  And here I thought those archetypical boots were filled by Gerik.  

See, I was looking over the FE3 script again for research (there's a lot in book 2 I'd just plain forgotten about, like how very much Xane despises humans), and reading about the five sacred ancient "jewels" that seal away the evils of the world got under my skin, not because I'd forgotten about that (it's the premise of a WIP crossover), but because of how... transparent... the FE8 rehash job is.  

Friend of Protagonist suffers Terrible Loss and is seduced by a Dark Thingy that corrupts his mind and soul and leads him to launch Surprise Attack on the Beloved Homeland of the Protagonist leading to Exile and Continent-Spanning War and Cool New Friends and eventually the Corrupted Friend dies on the Blade of the Protagonist for yay, that is his only path to Redemption.  And then everyone kicks the ass of the Pure Evil that lurks beneath the entire mess.  And, oh yeah, Little Dragon Girl!

The main difference is that the Protagonist of FE8 has a bunch of peers as opposed to just minions and it seems like half the characters are getting laid.  I think I can count the number of FE3 characters who are getting laid on the fingers of one hand.  FE8 also has Lute, L'Arachel, and Innes/Vanessa in its favor.


[But wait, you say-- FE8 has two Protagonists.  Surely that counts in the favor of FE8 when it comes to originality?  No, friends, it does not.  The Twins of Renais both show a clear line of descent back to a single source.  So what if Eirika got the "OMG war is horrible and why would my dear friend DO this?" grief and Ephraim got the power trappings of the Peg Knight girlfriend and the Dragon Girl sidekick?  Friends, it is not enough.]  

Don't think I'm bashing FE8.  As I said, I love the characters.  I feel like mounting an Ephraim Defense League because the poor guy doesn't get enough credit or appreciation from the fandom.  That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that FE8 is large-scale rape of FE3, with more sex and humor (and the sword-wielding Protagonist really is a girl in a dress this time).  And, it seems to me, without the same level of thought put into the backstory.  But support conversations make everything automatically better, right?

But there are monsters and a World Map!  That's original, you say.  Dude, those came straight outta FE2.  You can't win on this one, trust me.

[This is not bashing.  You want bashing, and I can start on FE7, wherein half the characters annoy the hell out of me.  Also, I hate Navarres.  The first Navarre was OK, but as a class these brooding angsty loners who "disappear like the wind" bore me to tears.  The love lives of Thieves also bore me to tears-- I'm looking at you, Julian-Colm-and-Matthew.]

Oh, yeah.  Those interested, please to be looking through the entire fanarts archive, because you will find good stuff.  The artist does appear to be a Cain/Catria fan, and Mark of the Asphodel is NOT down with the Cain/Catria.  The artist gets bonus points for having what appears to be an icon of FE4's Finn at the bottom of her page, though, which redeems things.  Because Finn is every bit as cute as Marth except without the mandate of heaven allowing the world to revolve around him and stuff.  

Comments

[shimizu-hitomi.livejournal.com]

I love that fanartist. Gorgeous gorgeous stuff. She does seem to be a red knight/second peg sister fan though (which is more of an archetypal thing in Japanese fandom I think, or at least I haven't seen very many fans of that pairing type in English speaking fandom) -- it's not just Cain/Catria, but Forde/Vanessa also, and I think I remember Alan/Thite (FE6), though maybe that was a different artist.

Good catch on Cormag = Ogma -- I also was thinking more along the hero/mercenary archetype, which Gerik definitely fits more. The Caeda/Ogma and Tana/Cormag parallel has never quite hit me until now. XD

I actually like FE6 more than FE7, and I suspect the existence of FE6 makes me less annoyed by the FE7 cast in general (which I'm pretty divided on -- the ones I like I absolutely adore, but I think I'm kind of "meh" on the vast majority). My favorite "Navarre" is probably FE4's Shanan, mostly because he actually has a personality... Karel gets more interesting once you take FE6 into context, but he's still kind of a cliched character imo. As for the thieves, Julian is only really interesting to me in terms of Lena, while Colm and Matthew = yawn -- though FE5 has to me an interesting (and funny) variation on the thief/sister pairing where the the thief character doesn't have a heart of gold and really... isn't a good person, lol.

People don't like Ephraim though? I thought it was just me. XD He's always struck me as pretty popular in fandom (though maybe more for his role in various romantic setups involving Eirika, Innes, and Tana than as a character in his own right).

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

The Caeda/Ogma = Tana/Cormag thing was the furthest thing from my mind, until I saw this: http://aga.qusqus.com/agahari/ag/FE/FE90.htm

I was actually counting Cormag in FE8's favor as an "original" character, and it pains me deeply to see that Cormag is also participating in Magvel High's production of Monshou no Nazo (once more, with feeling!). Ah, Cormag-- we can reduce you to your hair color and the scars on your face, but we can never take away your backstory or your wood-carvings.

I feel that a lot of the FE7 cast is *only* interesting in light of FE6, which gives a tragic or noble heft to characters who, on the basis of FE7 alone, don't appear to deserve it. Karel being high on my list of "only remotely interesting because of FE6." Nino and Jaffar, ditto. As for Matthew... he's kind of funny, and the sekrit spywork is more interesting than just being a generic thief. But that's it.

I have never really been excited about Julian/Lena. It's enduring popularity frankly mystifies me, *especially* in light of FE3. Lena's "so sorry I've been a biatch to you all these years" is just... no. That's not romantic. Astram is a hubris-ridden jerk and Midia is apparently made of fail (captured *twice*?), but they make a better "couple" than most of FE3's marquee pairings. I believe they love one another equally and deserve one another, something I can't say for most of the happy couples of Archanea.

It kind of sounds like Creativity left the IS building after FE5. Given the IS politics of the time, it doesn't seem to be happenstance.

As for Ephraim... I never heard much about Ephraim before diving into FE fandom late last year. I'd been hearing for long years about "Eliwood the Pansy" and "Hector the Awesome" and all the pro-Lyn/anti-Lyn chatter. All I ever did hear about Eph was "bland," "bland but kind of badass, at least moreso than his sister" and "generic." Even in FE8 terms, his popularity seems way overshadowed by Eirika's (finding Ephraim fanart is a pain, and finding fanart not copped from his official art is exponentially harder). In overall FE terms, he seems to be the Lord everybody forgets about. Well, *Alm* is the guy everybody forgets about, but Alm wasn't internationally released on the GBA! And yeah, most of what I can find on Eph is shounen ai that pairs him with Innes, which... meh. Not all hateful relationships can be reduced to sex.

What don't you like about him? I like him as a character, though his supports with Tana really ticked me off. Note to Tana: GO WITH CORMAG. Ephraim and Eirika both show some actual character development, instead of being stuck in neutral for the whole of the game.

[shimizu-hitomi.livejournal.com]

Thing about Julian/Lena is, the translation of their exchange in FE3 is kind of weird. I remember looking at the original Japanese while I was checking the Sirius/Nina exchange, and Lena comes off much less... bitchy/spoiled. It's been a while, but I remember it was more along the lines of "sorry I've been such a burden on you"... I could be wrong though. Should go back and check. XD

And yeah, I think Shouzou Kaga left after FE5, and he seems to have been the one with all the weird ideas. Makes me really curious about Tear Ring Saga, which, one of these days, I'm totally going to give into the temptation of and try out...

True that Eirika is a lot more popular than Ephraim though (and FE8 is not that popular compared to the other English-released games, which probably explains part of it too).

HAHA. Yeah. Ephraim/Tana supports = ARGH. I don't so much dislike him I guess; it's more that I think the only interesting aspect of him is his serious sister complex. XD I wish he'd had more variety in his supports, anyway, which is weird because he and Eirika have the most supports in the game -- I just find most of his kind of dull. (I'm kind of surprised he didn't have any supports with Innes.)

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah, the sister complex is part of what spurred me to check out FE8 to begin with. And it is most definitely there. Of the supports that can actually lead to Ephraim getting legally married, I prefer the one with L'Arachel. It has this "crazy woman is crazy but this is turning me on" vibe that makes Ephraim feel like a red-blooded male. I was tickled that the Gorgeous Fanartist had Ephraim/L'Arachel as the content of the "Wedding Ceremony" pic in that FE100 challenge.

[Her instincts for that challenge were spot-on. That was the most satisfying parade of FE100 images I've seen to date.]

I didn't realize that latter-day FE games had negative/hateful supports until this week, when someone pointed out to me that Matthew can support with Jaffar (wtf?), so I guess in that light, Innes/Ephraim is a terrible omission. Up to now I wasn't bothered by it, because I couldn't imagine how being in proximity would emotionally benefit either of them. I kind of like the apparent original conception of supports wherein the sibling, lover, BBF, or superior lends strength or inspiration, so having Innes giving anything to Ephraim other than negative vibes just seemed weird.

Re: Tear Ring Saga-- all I know about it is one vaguely trollish guy over at GameFaqs who whined about the number of character names it "stole" from FE games. The only one I can think of ATM being "Roger," which to me is a very standard heroic name with roots going back to Beowulf saga and all.

Re: Julian/Lena-- huh. I wonder what else came off odd in the current translation. Mind you, I still am not bowled over by them conceptually, but if she's not being a spoiled brat then it's already substantially better.

FE3: In which we are given a world of wise, strong, and powerful female characters, and then sit back and watch as they are systematically broken, humiliated, and scorned.