Dutiful Knight Characterization Wibbling

[mark_asphodel]

OK.  Last time I was complaining that Jugdral didn't offer me nerds I could identify with.  Today, imma complain about something else, of more recent origin.

The current conception of a SRS BZNS knight.  [FE12 data obtained from playthroughs by shimizu_hitomi , Big Klingy, and others.]

FE12 gives us "Chris," Marth's invaluable source of support, alter ego, etc.  Chris expresses her devotion to Marth by getting all up in his business being obsessed with training.  And sparring.  And training.  And challenging people.  It's pretty dull, actually.  Even worse, Cain-- a character who was set up for some beautiful characterization in FE11-- appeared to have been sketched in the same way, as this really bland training-obsessed sort of guy.  It was a real disappointment, as FE12!Cain seemed to have less depth than FE3!Cain.

Then we get FE13.

Frederick looks cool.  I was pleased to see that he was SRS Knight and I hoped that he'd lend some gravitas to a cast that included Liz and Sariya and all these flaky weirdoes.  Unfortunately, his defining character trait according to the supports being translated here (spoilers abound) make him out to be an exercise freak.  That's his conception of duty, apparently-- his motto would appear to be mens sana in corpore sano... especially given that he thinks he can will away physical illness.  And in execution, he's like the kind of guy who perpetually has a white towel around his neck and a bottle of Gatorade in his fist.  One support of it was kind of meh... multiple supports of it is just... no.

Gimme back Seth and Titania and conceptions of being a dedicated knight that didn't involve doing calisthenics 24/7.

PS: Please comment at DW if you have a DW account.  Otherwise I'm going to start locking comments from LJ again.  I re-opened it to be inclusive, but I don't want the majority of my content at LJ.  Thanks. 

Comments

[raphiael]

. . .Egh. That was an okay gag for like. . . Wallace. And even then, it wasn't his entire schtick.

Really not fond of the TRAINING SPARRING FIGHTING YAY types. :\

[xirysa]

Honestly, I thought the gimmick worked for him simply because it was Wallace. I'm not even kidding--it was a gag, and, given Wallace's character (and all the other facets of it, like his ties to Lyndis's parents and Caelin and his status as a senior knight) it actually worked and made him that much more three-dimensional of a character, imo.

And then everyone exercised obsessively and got arthritis before the age of twenty. The end.

(I'm kind of disappointed, because I was really hoping that I'd like Frederick, too.)

[raphiael]

Yeah, it worked for him. He was bombastic and all, but there was more to him than that, and that made it work. I was meaning more characters like Guy, Mia, those types, where I feel like you have to scrape and squint to see anything that isn't I WANNA BE THE VERY BEST. And for knights, I do like the type where it's clear that they strive for and expect excellence, but it's not all they've got going on. (Icon definitely relevant.)

Mm, supports aren't the be all end all, so I'm hoping he'll get more in the main script.

[kyusil]

It does seem like almost every gag character in newer FE has a three-dimensional equivalent in 7, doesn't it? Or at least, 7 did an unusually good job at balancing gimmicks with actual character depth IMO.

[raphiael]

Yeah. Well, earlier FE in general. Sariya's all creepy stalker mage girl in her supports, for example, and Lute just. . . did it better, in my opinion. I'm really trying to keep an open mind, but it really seems like, to me, there's a whole lot of random hobbies or backstory hinting in the supports, rather than the multifaceted looks at characters that previous entries offered. I mean, it's cool to know that a character likes to paint, or is an orphan, or what have you, but it's not the same as having a personality with different sides to it. And that's what I like best about the support system, the different traits people bring out in each other.

[samuraiter]

*raises wine glass*

I approve of this comment!

And I agree that the Support system made a world of difference in terms of characterization.

[mark_asphodel]

and, given Wallace's character (and all the other facets of it, like his ties to Lyndis's parents and Caelin and his status as a senior knight) it actually worked

As in, there was a lot more to Wallace besides that. I mean, the thing about Wallace that I'll always remember is the business with the Taliver bandits, not the training fixation.

[mark_asphodel]

Or at least, 7 did an unusually good job at balancing gimmicks with actual character depth IMO.

It did a pretty good job, though on the whole I much prefer the FE8 cast. And while FE7 was already heavily, heavily recycling the "types" set out in earlier games; in some cases (Serra) I think they did the best job overall for that type, in some cases (Heath, Peg Knight Trio) I don't think they improved on the earlier characters. But at this point, many of the FE13 characters and many of the "improved" characterizations giving to vintage characters in FE12 just feels like... backwash. Yuk.

But FE7 and FE8 both presented multifaceted characters to an extent not found elsewhere that I've seen. Pre-FE12 Archanea and Jugdral in general give some characters complexity while the rest are very sketchy. But now we get a wealth of detail on everyone, much of it... not compelling.

[mark_asphodel]

But FE13 has supports. And a lot of them suck. So, while it might have been a great thing circa 7/8 (though I loathe the turn-based implementation), I don't think it's necessarily better than the conversation event format of imparting characterization as seen in FE5 or FE11.

[mark_asphodel]

And that's what I like best about the support system, the different traits people bring out in each other.

It's not as though Forde is narcoleptic in every single conversation. Franz isn't OMG FISHING through his Natasha supports. I've felt, and always have felt, that an Eliwood who can A-support with Fiora is a somewhat different person than one who A-supports with Ninian, and I see no reason to change this. They're mutually exclusive fates and things went in different directions.

So many (though not all) of the FE13 supports seem to be like pounding in an already flat nail with the same hammer. And as for FE12... Chris was boring. No other word for it.