Subverting the Dominant Paradigm

[mark_asphodel]

Now that I've landed on everyone's B.S. radar for the title...

When I was in Gundam Wing fandom, there were some clear-eyed and rational fans who took a moment to reflect upon how the fandom, or at least the writing end of it, got so damn screwed up.  The most eloquent of these was probably tzigane, a Chang Wufei fan whose 'fics weren't my thing but whose characterization essays (warning for language and discussion of yaoi) are essential for understanding how and why a fandom goes to hell.  Or, rather, how something blatantly out-of-character becomes the dominant take on a character, to the point where canon-faithful portrayals are shouted down, met with tar and pitchforks, etc.  Her essay on Heero Yuy contained an "a-ha!" moment for me when she talked about how successive waves of fans essentially distort the stereotypes crafted by the prior wave.

Circa 2008 I wrote something similar for SSB fandom concentrating on the mutilation desecration popular depiction of Roy and Marth.  FE11 wasn't out yet to confuse people further, but as far as I can tell FE11 hasn't mattered a jot to 98% of SSB 'ficcers, so as far as I'm concerned my take on things from then still stands.  I called the essay "Martian Canals" (x-ref), and my key assertion was that the 'ficcers were so far off base, even given fragmented and contradictory canon, that the "Marth" and "Roy" they were writing about essentially didn't exist anywhere outside of fandom itself. 

I wisely did not post that essay.  Anywhere.  I still thought FE fans were jerks and already figured the SSB crowd didn't care about self-reflection.

I could probably postulate for hours about how and why SSB fandom got so screwy, and why fans latched onto specific OOC takes on Marth and Roy-- which 'fics set the pace, and who borrowed from what, and so forth.  But I'm sure none of you in FE-land care; the end result is simply that we can collectively spot at once when an SSB-writer blunders into Fire Emblem fandom and slaps up a 'fic.  The traits are so clear you can practically write a field guide for it.

But Fire Emblem fandom has its own evolutions and subversions, though on a smaller scale.  I dunno about Tellius, but in the sub-fandoms I follow it usually consists of a couple of people who are really into one concept or one pairing, and suddenly the front page of ffnet's archive has three or four Marisa/Joshua stories on it.  And I think the rise of Kent/Lyn as the dominant Lyn pairing has been discussed many times in multiple places, but the essence of that one is that someone started writing something they liked and it turned out other people liked it too.

I don't think most writers have a mind to hijack a fandom.  I'm certain the early Gundam Wing writers had no idea that "their" Heero and Duo and whatnot-- characterizations based on a handful of fansubbed videos-- would mutate and devour fandom.  But it's an interesting thing to contemplate, particularly when I come across 'fics involving characters I am personally invested in and think, "Is this writer deriving their take on character X from canon, or did they get this from reading other writers' fanfics?"  Because coming across someone else whose take on Character X meshes with yours doesn't necessarily validate your beliefs re: Character X with regard to canon.  It could just mean you were both reading the same 'fics or the same commentary.  It could even mean they read your own story and liked it, and you're essentially agreeing with a reflection of yourself.

Seriously, I once found something in the Fire Emblem TV Tropes section whose wording was identical to wording in a discussion I was having with someone in the comments of my DA journal.  Now, did that other person then turn around and edit TV Tropes, or did some third party come across that conversation and lift a phrase, or did multiple fans in the same small fandom reach the same conclusion independently?  (Said wording is now gone, TV Tropes being what it is-- it had to do with FE3!Marth versus FE11!Marth, and the current text is pared down considerably.)  I've had the same experience at least once with the FE Wiki.  And some discussions in emblanon  have made the whole echo-chamber effect very disconcerting-- I've seen things that sound damn-near identical to my own beliefs, but it wasn't me.  But it's an anon meme, so I don't know if that writer was being sincere, or sockpuppeting, or what.  

So, dear f-list-- what fandom paradigms do you plan to subvert in the new year?  

Comments

[hooves.livejournal.com]

If anyone's hard to pin down for writing, though, it's Lyn. She's both driven and very tunnel-visiony (supports with Hector show that well), compassionate and family-oriented (supports with Wil, the way she treats Ninian and Nino and Florina), a very good friend (Florina's supports), and all of this, and then she turns around and goes quiet in supports with Rath (hate those supports, but they are as canon as the rest!) and goes CLEAN THE OTHER WAY in her supports with Kent that she does in her supports with Hector. (Of course, her supports with Hector are essentially this:

Hector: I LOVE YOU.
Lyn: I'mma beat you in our next sparring match, bitch. BE READY.

So I don't even know.) She goes so far as to *avoid* Kent after he answers her question in a way she doesn't like. Immaturity? Probably. It makes sense. She's super balanced in that way, and could probably be written any way while technically being...in character, but FANON sees her as mostly badass, either due to her stats, or because they only read her conversations with Hector in-game and see her constantly jumping to conclusions and starting fights. Well, yes, she does do that-- but not ALL of the time.

Anyway, what sorts of KentLyn fanon did you see going on I guess? I know you said Americanized/contemporary, but I'm not sure I follow very well. Do you have any examples? Either my or others' works? (You can always PM me.) I'm still working on re-educating my own fanon concerning the pairing, so...

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

FANON sees her as mostly badass, either due to her stats, or because they only read her conversations with Hector in-game and see her constantly jumping to conclusions and starting fights.

Yeah. Well, with a lot of these "contradictory" facets of a character, it's hard to say whether they really are "realistic" characters with multiple dimensions... or just incoherent, poorly written ones. They might be both! Real people WILL behave differently depending on the situation, the power dynamic, the class dynamic, gender roles, and so on. But a good fictional character... especially a good fantasy character with fantasy baggage, isn't necessarily "realistic."

[Then again, this is my particular bitch-fit wrt: FE3!Marth. You have a complex and dirty political landscape, some really fascinating supporting characters, and the protagonist is a Moron Messiah Holy Innocent. Puh-leeze.]

Anyway, what sorts of KentLyn fanon did you see going on I guess? I know you said Americanized/contemporary, but I'm not sure I follow very well.

They seemed like modern people. It was the same kind of "wrong" I get out of a lot of the Tellius 'fic I've read-- there wasn't a sense of being a plainswoman-turned-princess or a knight in a medievalish fantasy landscape. The atmosphere wasn't there. It was like... I don't remember if you're into Harry Potter, but there are Potter 'fics (even by American writers) that get the essential Britishness of the series, and there are 'fics that... don't. And it's one thing when the writer is just being sloppy, but often enough it's more out of love, of identification with the characters, and of deeply involved headcanon having erased real canon.

I dunno. I can dig up examples and PM them if you want.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

I feel like the characters are poorly written, not intended to be 3D. As you know, most FE characters contradict themselves so many times in canon that it's just stupid. Has to be poor writing...or a poor, poor attempt at 3D-ness. Don't get me wrong-- having all those facets of Lyn is great for writing her because we see her in X amount of situations already, but... STILL.

You have a complex and dirty political landscape, some really fascinating supporting characters, and the protagonist is a Moron Messiah Holy Innocent. Puh-leeze.

Yeah, that is just stupid, not to mention unrealistic. There are two options here:

1.) Holy Innocent gets slaughtered on the dirty political landscape, or
2.) Holy Innocent isn't really Holy or Innocent, but rather, one of those playing the dirty political games.

Really, two choices are there-- either Moron Messiah (lol, love this nickname now) derps about stupidly until he's stomped into the group by political opponents, or he learns to beat them at their own game. The first option sucks, but honestly, the second one does, too. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, right? But in the end, you end up with a seriously warped individual. Good for angst, but anything else? Not so much.

I was never into Harry Potter (AHHH SORRY HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN THE MOVIES I'M A BAD PERSON) but I think I understand what you mean. Unfortunately, most authors (especially myself, I'm one of the WORST) struggle really hard with what I think most people call world-building? Or even just general atmosphere. I suck at it so bad...it's not even funny.

Of course, striking a balance between "this is the world they live in" and "HOLY SHIT ALE IS DISGUSTING CRAP THICKER THAN BLOOD AND NOBODY SHOWERS AND EVERYONE'S ALL HAIRY" is really hard to find, sometimes. I could probably write essays on my KentLyn love, but when it comes down to writing them? I honestly feel they're way harder to write correctly than at least half of the FE pairings out there. Which sucks.

I try to incorporate things into longer pieces that...sort of show atmosphere? But I think more often than not I've failed at it, so maybe I stopped trying.

As far as being modern goes, PMs would be awesome if you have the time to dig up an example or two or nine-thousand. Is it mostly word choices and things like that? My biggest gripe with FE7 is that the characters talk like they're modern, so it's really hard to pick old-fashioned phrases or words for things that were used in, say, our medieval times, but...they're over there and though the worst curse word they use is "BLAST!!" and they say things like "curr" and "moppet"...they are otherwise portrayed exactly as we are, the only differences in characters being that some talk more formally than others.

So. Yes. Examples. Would be epic.

I'm trying to think of how many times I've failed at atmosphere, but it's probably so many times I can't count. All I can think is, if I was into Harry Potter, I would fail at capturing the Britishness of it. Or of anything. My knowledge is too limited-- and that extends to medieval times, despite having books on it for research.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

1.) Holy Innocent gets slaughtered on the dirty political landscape, or

That was, in essence, the very first FE 'fic I ever attempted. Never finished it, never posting it, but that was the idea-- "How the ending of FE3 would go according to real psychology and logic."

Holy Innocent isn't really Holy or Innocent, but rather, one of those playing the dirty political games.

That was kind of my take on things after playing FE11-- or, at least, it seemed like a viable option. FE12 yanks that one off the table, though. :(

But in the end, you end up with a seriously warped individual. Good for angst, but anything else?

/cue extended rant on Elicegate in FE12

I dunno. I was so happy to get FE11 Marth. And so crushed by what I've seen in FE12. You want contradictory? There's stuff in FE12 that just... can't... be overlooked. It's like combining the absolute worst of Moron Messiah with Angsty and Warped, but the player is supposed to be all warm and fuzzy about it. The hell?

I honestly feel they're way harder to write correctly than at least half of the FE pairings out there.

Is it a hard-to-achieve pairing in FE7? Like, one of the ones that takes a million turns to get?

[Heh. Well, IMO Marth/Caeda is really hard to write, because for all the talking they do, it's almost never with one another.]

PMs would be awesome if you have the time to dig up an example

I'll go hunting. Because seriously, it did bug me and did serve as a turn-off for the pairing itself.

My biggest gripe with FE7 is that the characters talk like they're modern

Yeah. That's true... true for some of the FE8 gang, too, and seems to be very true of FE9 which is yet another reason I haven't warmed to it. FE9 just feels weird to me and the characters seem over-the-top and cartoony except for a handful. And it looks like FE12 is going for the OTT cartoony route, too. :(

but...they're over there and though the worst curse word they use is "BLAST!!"

Heh. That's one reason I like the fan-translations for FE2 and FE3. There's some rather more harsh language in play, there. When Alm announces his intention to "crush the bastards" in FE2, it's just... so right.

Also, I saw fragments of a translated FE1 playthrough on YouTube, and it looks like Marth started off as a kind of angry, lippy character. In the scene where he breaks up the (slave) market, he was pretty pissed off and going "What the HELL are you doing?" to the slave traders and that doesn't come through in the FE3 fan-translation, much less FE11. So, given that we know NoA botched things in the FE7 adaptation, you just have to wonder what nuances got missed or distorted.

the only differences in characters being that some talk more formally than others.

Levels of formality, and what they say about a person, is one of those things just encoded so well in Japanese that modern American (or even modern British) English Can. Not. Express. Dollars to donuts there are things in the original scripts that we're missing because we literally have no equivalent.

[shining-valor.livejournal.com]

1.) Holy Innocent gets slaughtered on the dirty political landscape, or
2.) Holy Innocent isn't really Holy or Innocent, but rather, one of those playing the dirty political games.

There is a third option, of course.

3.) Holy Innocent has DIRTY POLITICAL MINION to take care of the dirty politics and keep him alive.

^^

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

That's true. Unfortunately, MyUnit isn't really an effective dirty political minion because he's pretty naive and ignorant himself. The idea behind it really could have worked, but the execution is SO not convincing.

[shining-valor.livejournal.com]

That's why we have fanfiction. Becuz sometimes the canon path is illogical.