mark_asphodel (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
mark_asphodel) wrote2010-12-08 01:46 pm
mark_asphodel) wrote2010-12-08 01:46 pm
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Subverting the Dominant Paradigm
Now that I've landed on everyone's B.S. radar for the title...
When I was in Gundam Wing fandom, there were some clear-eyed and rational fans who took a moment to reflect upon how the fandom, or at least the writing end of it, got so damn screwed up. The most eloquent of these was probably tzigane, a Chang Wufei fan whose 'fics weren't my thing but whose characterization essays (warning for language and discussion of yaoi) are essential for understanding how and why a fandom goes to hell. Or, rather, how something blatantly out-of-character becomes the dominant take on a character, to the point where canon-faithful portrayals are shouted down, met with tar and pitchforks, etc. Her essay on Heero Yuy contained an "a-ha!" moment for me when she talked about how successive waves of fans essentially distort the stereotypes crafted by the prior wave.
Circa 2008 I wrote something similar for SSB fandom concentrating on themutilation desecration popular depiction of Roy and Marth. FE11 wasn't out yet to confuse people further, but as far as I can tell FE11 hasn't mattered a jot to 98% of SSB 'ficcers, so as far as I'm concerned my take on things from then still stands. I called the essay "Martian Canals" (x-ref), and my key assertion was that the 'ficcers were so far off base, even given fragmented and contradictory canon, that the "Marth" and "Roy" they were writing about essentially didn't exist anywhere outside of fandom itself.
I wisely did not post that essay. Anywhere. I still thought FE fans were jerks and already figured the SSB crowd didn't care about self-reflection.
I could probably postulate for hours about how and why SSB fandom got so screwy, and why fans latched onto specific OOC takes on Marth and Roy-- which 'fics set the pace, and who borrowed from what, and so forth. But I'm sure none of you in FE-land care; the end result is simply that we can collectively spot at once when an SSB-writer blunders into Fire Emblem fandom and slaps up a 'fic. The traits are so clear you can practically write a field guide for it.
But Fire Emblem fandom has its own evolutions and subversions, though on a smaller scale. I dunno about Tellius, but in the sub-fandoms I follow it usually consists of a couple of people who are really into one concept or one pairing, and suddenly the front page of ffnet's archive has three or four Marisa/Joshua stories on it. And I think the rise of Kent/Lyn as the dominant Lyn pairing has been discussed many times in multiple places, but the essence of that one is that someone started writing something they liked and it turned out other people liked it too.
I don't think most writers have a mind to hijack a fandom. I'm certain the early Gundam Wing writers had no idea that "their" Heero and Duo and whatnot-- characterizations based on a handful of fansubbed videos-- would mutate and devour fandom. But it's an interesting thing to contemplate, particularly when I come across 'fics involving characters I am personally invested in and think, "Is this writer deriving their take on character X from canon, or did they get this from reading other writers' fanfics?" Because coming across someone else whose take on Character X meshes with yours doesn't necessarily validate your beliefs re: Character X with regard to canon. It could just mean you were both reading the same 'fics or the same commentary. It could even mean they read your own story and liked it, and you're essentially agreeing with a reflection of yourself.
Seriously, I once found something in the Fire Emblem TV Tropes section whose wording was identical to wording in a discussion I was having with someone in the comments of my DA journal. Now, did that other person then turn around and edit TV Tropes, or did some third party come across that conversation and lift a phrase, or did multiple fans in the same small fandom reach the same conclusion independently? (Said wording is now gone, TV Tropes being what it is-- it had to do with FE3!Marth versus FE11!Marth, and the current text is pared down considerably.) I've had the same experience at least once with the FE Wiki. And some discussions in![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
emblanon have made the whole echo-chamber effect very disconcerting-- I've seen things that sound damn-near identical to my own beliefs, but it wasn't me. But it's an anon meme, so I don't know if that writer was being sincere, or sockpuppeting, or what.
So, dear f-list-- what fandom paradigms do you plan to subvert in the new year?
When I was in Gundam Wing fandom, there were some clear-eyed and rational fans who took a moment to reflect upon how the fandom, or at least the writing end of it, got so damn screwed up. The most eloquent of these was probably tzigane, a Chang Wufei fan whose 'fics weren't my thing but whose characterization essays (warning for language and discussion of yaoi) are essential for understanding how and why a fandom goes to hell. Or, rather, how something blatantly out-of-character becomes the dominant take on a character, to the point where canon-faithful portrayals are shouted down, met with tar and pitchforks, etc. Her essay on Heero Yuy contained an "a-ha!" moment for me when she talked about how successive waves of fans essentially distort the stereotypes crafted by the prior wave.
Circa 2008 I wrote something similar for SSB fandom concentrating on the
I wisely did not post that essay. Anywhere. I still thought FE fans were jerks and already figured the SSB crowd didn't care about self-reflection.
I could probably postulate for hours about how and why SSB fandom got so screwy, and why fans latched onto specific OOC takes on Marth and Roy-- which 'fics set the pace, and who borrowed from what, and so forth. But I'm sure none of you in FE-land care; the end result is simply that we can collectively spot at once when an SSB-writer blunders into Fire Emblem fandom and slaps up a 'fic. The traits are so clear you can practically write a field guide for it.
But Fire Emblem fandom has its own evolutions and subversions, though on a smaller scale. I dunno about Tellius, but in the sub-fandoms I follow it usually consists of a couple of people who are really into one concept or one pairing, and suddenly the front page of ffnet's archive has three or four Marisa/Joshua stories on it. And I think the rise of Kent/Lyn as the dominant Lyn pairing has been discussed many times in multiple places, but the essence of that one is that someone started writing something they liked and it turned out other people liked it too.
I don't think most writers have a mind to hijack a fandom. I'm certain the early Gundam Wing writers had no idea that "their" Heero and Duo and whatnot-- characterizations based on a handful of fansubbed videos-- would mutate and devour fandom. But it's an interesting thing to contemplate, particularly when I come across 'fics involving characters I am personally invested in and think, "Is this writer deriving their take on character X from canon, or did they get this from reading other writers' fanfics?" Because coming across someone else whose take on Character X meshes with yours doesn't necessarily validate your beliefs re: Character X with regard to canon. It could just mean you were both reading the same 'fics or the same commentary. It could even mean they read your own story and liked it, and you're essentially agreeing with a reflection of yourself.
Seriously, I once found something in the Fire Emblem TV Tropes section whose wording was identical to wording in a discussion I was having with someone in the comments of my DA journal. Now, did that other person then turn around and edit TV Tropes, or did some third party come across that conversation and lift a phrase, or did multiple fans in the same small fandom reach the same conclusion independently? (Said wording is now gone, TV Tropes being what it is-- it had to do with FE3!Marth versus FE11!Marth, and the current text is pared down considerably.) I've had the same experience at least once with the FE Wiki. And some discussions in
emblanon have made the whole echo-chamber effect very disconcerting-- I've seen things that sound damn-near identical to my own beliefs, but it wasn't me. But it's an anon meme, so I don't know if that writer was being sincere, or sockpuppeting, or what. So, dear f-list-- what fandom paradigms do you plan to subvert in the new year?
I got a little long-winded [Part 1/2]
Using my main fandom as an example, someone writes a fic about Character A's past. Character A's past is generally unknown, so you could say he came from a broken home and I could say he was the son of a politician and that guy over there with the funny hat could say he grew up in a colony of women. Either take would be considered 'correct' because the truth of the matter is, no one knows. This fic is so well written and other people agree with what is presented, so then they write that as Character A's past in their fics, and it all goes down the line. It becomes a case where fanon is like the new canon, where the fanon is accepted more than the canon, etc. etc. (Except my fandom usually writes Character A in character, but there are certain things that I think everyone who writes Character A puts in there. Like him liking alcohol a whole lot. And I do this too because--oh, look at this--I saw it in a fic, I liked it, it fit in with my image, and I used it.)
But in a fandom like Gundam Wing, I feel that people cling so hard to their image of So-and-so because it's my precious and all that. I came into Gundam Wing fandom a lot later--two years after it had been played in America, seven or so years after it aired in Japan--so I had a different mind-set I guess. I got into it through the dub (all of one episode) and then I, like everyone else, watched fansubs because subtitled anime was generally unheard of, so you had to find it online. And these fansubs, depending on which group you watched, had different takes on lines and dialogue and blah. At least when I had entered the fandom, there was a lot of dub influence, especially on Heero. The whole 'cold, monotone warrior' came from the dub (at least in part) because the casting director told Mark Hildreth (Heero's dubbed voice actor) to sound that way.
And I hated him for that lolAnd if you never saw the original, well, how were you supposed to know? But since I shunned the duband still do...I was a weird Gundam Wing fan anyway. Fandom generally shunned me because I A) liked Relena and B) didn't ship Heero/Duo and C) instead shipped Heero/Relena and the only slash pairings I liked were Trowa/Quatre and Heero/Zechs and D) I didn't care what they thought, I was there for Heero.
As someone who comes from Super Smash Brothers fandom (and someone who ships Marth/Roy), I whole-heartedly agree with you. Many of them would argue, however, that Marth and Roy aren't in their own universes, so
their characterisations can be thrown out the windowthere are different influences. Which would be one thing if you were writing an AU, where they turned out different-but-still-recognisable because of Event A. But most of the time it's an excuse to be lazy. I myself, in my younger SSB fandom days, was guilty of this. I think everyone in the fandom was, because especially when I started writing for the fandom (2003), Marth and Roy were those mysterious characters no one outside of Japan had heard of who spoke Japaneseand sounded extremely sexy. If you wanted information, you had to use an online translator or find game scripts, which wasn't as easy back then as it is now. And most people aren't go through all that trouble. As a result, you had all the 'fire and ice' metaphors and shitty slash where I could call Marth and Roy 'Bob and Tom' and you wouldn't know the difference.(I have noticed that my portrayals of Marth and Roy are different depending on if I'm writing for their original fandoms or if I'm writing Smash Brothers. I think I have my headcanon to blame and the fact that I write modern day AU stuff for Smash Brothers. I wouldn't call my portrayals of them in SSB fandom exactly canon breaking either. I consider them better than what I've seen, hahaha.)
You should post that dissertation. I would read it!
Re: I got a little long-winded [Part 1/2]
As I mentioned before, no one knew who these characters were--so they just made things up to make life easier. Maybe they read the trophy descriptions and then went from there filling in all the blanks. I honestly have no idea. I read a lot of fanfic in the fandom before I wrote in it, and I remember my initial characterisations for them being influenced by two fics in particular--"Momentum" (which is really well-written and I still love it, lol) and "When the Raven Calls" (which is no longer around, but I still remember it clearly). I'm sure if you went far back enough in the fandom, you'd get your answers. That's what I did for my current fandom, and it's surprising, to say the least.
I think the rise of Kent/Lyn as the dominant Lyn pairing has been discussed many times in multiple places, but the essence of that one is that someone started writing something they liked and it turned out other people liked it too.
I think that is an example of "if you like something but you can't find fic for it, write it yourself". I will use Smash Brothers for this, but I wrote a series, and the third (chronologically) part has a lot of focus on the kid Smashers (Young Link, Ness, Popo, and Lucas). Next thing I see a lot of people telling me how they've been waiting for a fic where the kid Smashers are main characters, and next thing after that I see an increase in kid Smashers fic. If you like something, but can't find fic for it, sometimes you have to be the first. Whether that's a good thing or not is open to debate, lol.
Kent/Lyn is the same thing. I don't know who started it(probably Manna, lol), but they really liked Kent/Lyn, couldn't find it anywhere, and decided to take matters into their own hands.
I'm certain the early Gundam Wing writers had no idea that "their" Heero and Duo and whatnot-- characterizations based on a handful of fansubbed videos-- would mutate and devour fandom.
I feel that if I were personally responsible for burning down half of fandom, I would never admit it. And I would feel really bad, hahaha.
Re: I got a little long-winded [Part 1/2]
Admittedly, though, when I saw Kender's 'fic (and it had last been written quite some time before I found it, was possibly unfinished, annnnnnnd there were only one or two others in the entire fandom at all (and all were old), I did decide to take matters into my own hands.
I do realize for some people it can seem daunting to step into a fandom and start writing writing what nobody else is writing currently (in my case: KentLyn), but when you think about it, right now it'd be hard to step in and write...say, HectorLyn. It looks like nobody likes it, but the following actually A.) disappeared, 2.) disbursed among other fandoms/sections of FE fandom, or 3.) are wondering when someone's gonna bother writing their favorite pairing.
I kind of get a ":/" face when someone says something like, "OH SO AND SO IS MY OTP", but then they don't really...write them or draw them or anything. That'd be like me claiming HeathPriscilla was my OTP-- I'm not actively writing it or reading it, so...how does that even make sense?
/tangents
I'm sure if you went far back enough in the fandom
This is kinda what I was saying above, I think... It's pretty funny to see how fandom has evolved, and what has become "popular" versus what has become "unpopular". For FE, RathLyn and HectorLyn *always* trumped KentLyn in every battle. In fact, I'd say that KentLyn wasn't even mentioned half the time, had very few fans, and those that did ship it didn't really get much support. In 2010, you can see KentLyn is everywhere, and RathLyn and HectorLyn are nowhere to be seen.
Thank GodBut of course the reason this is is because nobody's writing Rath or Hector with Lyn. <--Getting kind of tired of people QQing about that.A little "Man I wish there was more of X" is one thing, but "wahhh why doesn't anyone write X!?!?!?!?" is stupid.
Re: I got a little long-winded [Part 1/2]
Because whenever someone mentions Kent/Lyn, you always come to mind :P
I do realize for some people it can seem daunting to step into a fandom and start writing writing what nobody else is writing currently
Oh absolutely. Fandom can seem kind of daunting anyway given the fact that some of the people have been around for a long time and followings tend to crop up and 'cliques' form and so forth. It's the same as staring at a pool with a bunch of people who, for the most part, know each other. You want to take the plunge, but you're afraid to. Because they might not like what you have to say--or want to hear it. But if you want something done, you need to jump and take the plunge.
I kind of get a ":/" face when someone says something like, "OH SO AND SO IS MY OTP", but then they don't really...write them or draw them or anything.
Well I feel that some people might just like to read their OTP and fawn over them. They don't necessarily have to be 'active' in the fandom. I just happen to be the type who writes all of their favourite pairings to share my love, but not everyone in fandom is like that. But I get what you're saying, especially if they complain about there not being a lot of fic or any at all and going, "SO AND SO IS MY OTP WHERE IS THE FIC?"
It's pretty funny to see how fandom has evolved, and what has become "popular" versus what has become "unpopular".
In my main fandom, pretty much everything that was written years ago at the start of the fandom is still being written today, by the way of pairings and plots. Characterisation depends on whether there's a Mary Sue and/or the team they're writing for (Weiss fic tends to lean more towards sues and gratuitous 'yaoi' where the characters are mangled so one becomes the uke and the other becomes the seme and they start spouting "I love yous" and ugh get me a bucket; Schwarz fic tends to be more in character, less wangsty, and well-written on the whole; there is no Schreient fic which makes me sad D:). But more or less the fandom hasn't changed much, just produces work that's more or less well-written.
Other fandoms may vary, of course. I know Gundam Wing does and Fire Emblem does. Matthew/Guy used to be all the rage back when I joined FE fandom. Now no one writes it. Same thing with Hector/Lyn (which I never liked) and Rath/Lyn (that I liked but fell out of love for) and Eliwood/Lyn and Heath/Legault and all those other pairings.
There needs to be more Wallace/Vaida fic!
A little "Man I wish there was more of X" is one thing, but "wahhh why doesn't anyone write X!?!?!?!?" is stupid.
The first one gets my sympathy and will make me go, "Oh, I know how you feel, man, I wish there was more too!" The latter one just makes me go, "So why don't you do something about it?!"
Re: I got a little long-winded [Part 1/2]
Some people are afraid to write or draw... or at least to publish the results. Doesn't make them less of a fan, IMO-- especially in hostile fandoms. I didn't publish anything in most fandoms... I knew better than to enter the fray.
Even in Fire Emblem... I dunno, if you liked something, and you saw somebody you perceived as a BNF with a fan club saying it was garbage, and you were used to hostile fandoms where the BNF would rape you... yeah, I'd think twice about posting said unpopular thing.
Re: I got a little long-winded [Part 1/2]
Actually, my going theory for a while was that the crappy Marth/Roy stories were inspired by equally crappy 1X2. The ones with ice bastard!Marth and hyper-bouncy!Roy in particular.
I have noticed that my portrayals of Marth and Roy are different depending on if I'm writing for their original fandoms or if I'm writing Smash Brothers
I'll still read SSB!FE characters. Some of them are well-done. Most of them aren't. And I'm willing to cut people slack if they're basing things off the OVA or the mangas. I remember reading a very early Ike/Marth story (one of the first, IIRC) that I thought was totally FUBAR until I realized they were basing their take on Marth on the first volume of the FE1 manga. Yeah, that would make a difference...
Re: I got a little long-winded [Part 1/2]
...
*replaces Marth's and Roy's names with Heero's and Duo's*
holy crap, why did I not see this?
No wonder I hate those types of fics, lol.
Re: I got a little long-winded [Part 1/2]
"But if you’re going to take fantasizing about the Prince of Altea to a more active level and start (dear lord no) writing new adventures for him, where exactly to you turn for the characterization?
Well, you can do what a lot of people seem to do and just rewrite old Gundam Wing fics. One Hikaru Midorikawa character can be interchanged for another, right? So the Imperfect Soldier (Heero Yuy) and his long-haired comic sidekick (Duo Maxwell) are repurposed as Prince Marth and his red-haired sidekick Roy of Pherae, who doesn’t even belong in the same continuity as far as Fire Emblem is concerned. But we’re not concerned with Fire Emblem here, are we? And comedy, or sentimental mush, ensues.
I’d bet Gundam Wing was the entry point into fandom and fanfiction for many a fangirl, so it’s not at all surprising to see the same tired Gundam Wing ‘fic-tropes being recycled into various other media bases. And the fanon clichés are usually as inaccurate and inappropriate in the new fandoms as they were in GW to begin with. The flowery descriptions of silken hair and sapphire eyes are bad enough (what teenaged boys even think in those terms?), but at least in GW, the depiction of dour, intense Heero and happy-go-skippy Duo had some vague basis in canon. Well, actually the original Duo Maxwell isn’t happy-go-skippy at all, but by the time you get to the Ground Zero manga, he’s blatant comic relief and drawn like a girl to boot. Does that make it fanfic-for-hire? Could be."
Re: I got a little long-winded [Part 1/2]
One Hikaru Midorikawa character can be interchanged for another, right?
As much as I hate to say it, I honestly think people think this. Does this mean I can switch Marth for, say, Zelgadis, or Schuldig, or Tamahome, or Xing-ke, or Sou, or or or... Never mind they all have different personalities and the only thing they share is being voiced by the same guy?
Pffffff.
There is a reason why Rule #1 of fandom for me is: "If Midorikawa was in the anime, it is automatically like Gundam Wing."