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mark_asphodel) wrote2011-06-01 05:17 pm
Timelines and Holy Blood
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raphien and r_amythest )...I. Chronology
Funny that this should come about at the exact time I'm working on a piece that tries to make everything one continuous timeline.
Anyway, it's easy to assume that the first game in the Fire Emblem series is intended to be chronologically first, especially once you get a load of the sword-and-sandals vibe of "Archanea" in its original form. However, we know from the designers' notes that the seemingly more futuristic civilizations of Jugdral flourished a long time before Marth's era, at a time when Archanea was "barely civilized." Put bluntly, if you do the math, the exploits of Sigurd, Celice, and Leaf happened at least a thousand years before the time of Marth, Alm, and Cellica. Narga died approximately 1100 years before Marth's time, and Narga and the other divine dragons were alive and active during the Holy War in Jugdral. Also, the Tear Ring Saga plot is simultaneous with Marth's adventures.
Shadow Dragon and Mystery of the Emblem are not the kick-off point of a great continent-spanning dragon-filled adventure. They're the slammed door on a chapter in human/dragon relations. Jugdral's messy history is the prologue to Marth's victory-- and after that, we apparently look elsewhere entirely for our war stories.
So, we can't judge which games came "earlier" or "later" based on fashion or technology or how advanced they appear to our eyes. Civilizations rise and fall. Though it is worth noting that reboot!Archanea is modern indeed-- check out Marth's fencing outfit in the opening to Shadow Dragon sometime.
But, yes... "modern" and progressive Magvel might conceivably take place prior to some of the more medieval-feeling games.
II. Holy Blood
Ammie's musings about divine blood in Jugdral being derived from the Branded contradicts the origin story we get in canon (divine blood came about at the time the divine dragons intervened in human affairs during the Miracle at Darna), but it touches on a pretty fascinating aspect of Fire Emblem.
The first we hear of a birthmark signifying a holy (and weapon-linked) lineage is in Gaiden, where a cross-shaped mark determine's Alm's right to the throne of Rigel. Birthmarks and such never come up in Marth's games-- then again, there's never any doubt about who and what Marth is. But the birthmark thing turns out to be highly important in Jugdral. Again, from the notes: "A mark known as a "holy marking" surfaces on their bodies, which is the proof of forming a blood pact with the dragon tribe." The mark can arise at any age (clearly, Alm had his at birth), and is not impacted by the sex or birth order of the heir.
Skip ahead to Tellius and we have the Branded and their, uh, Brands, the proof that their ancestors had a very different sort of pact across species lines.
There is some fun to be had with this one. For one... what's lurking in Alm's family tree? Is something similar going on with Cellica?
III. Magvel is future!Archanea... maybe
OK. I've gone on about this one before, but in light of Raphi's post, I feel like laying out my reverse position. I feel very strongly that Archanea and Magvel are connected in SOME fashion, and to me the crumb trail leads in a different direction than it takes Raphi. This be speculation.
A. The mystery of the stones.
The five Sacred Stones of Magvel are the spheres of Archanea. Four of them get nuked in the course of FE8, so that's that for the spheres. But how did they get there (yes, the heavens gave them to mankind-- I mean, besides that)? Well, at some point long after the events of Mystery of the Emblem, some human got stupid-- as FE2 and FE3 insist that humans will-- and trashed the Shield of Seals, formerly known as the Fire Emblem. Archanea literally fell to pieces, just as it was in the process of doing when Marth saved it by re-assembling the Shield. Survivors fled to other lands; possibly to Valencia, which enjoyed a thousand-year reign of peace after Alm's time, and most definitely to the land we now call Magvel. The survivors brought with them the five spheres, the Falchion sword, and the memory of something called the Fire Emblem.
B. The dragonkin.
So, who were those survivors? IMO, the remnants of the dragon tribes of Archanea and their worshippers. Something that flies under the radar in FE3 is the significance of saving Tiki. Tiki cannot endure without the intact Shield. The game (and the peace) cannot be acquired without both. But what becomes of the child-goddess once a generation or two of men pass away? The existence of dragon-god cults, usually bad ones, is evident in Jugdral and Archanea both (I exclude Elibe from my musings-- IMO, the "Dragon's Gate" separates it from the main action, so to speak). The cults of Mila and Doma in Valencia are very likely centered around a pair of dragons. And FE8 presents us with an utterly benign group of divine-dragon worshipers. So, in light of this idea, the veneration of Myrrh in FE8 would be the remnant of the worship of the grown-up Tiki in Archanea's heyday. And Tiki would be the matriarch of the tribe that, by the War of the Stones, is again sadly depleted. In other words, she's the original Great Dragon, quite possibly the one who brought the relics to Magvel.
C. Nada Kuya and her sword.
Relics that included Marth's Falchion sword (not to be confused with Alm's sword of the same name). With the magical contract that bound it to Anri's bloodline broken, the "narrow sword made from a fang" was given by the dragons to a new heroine, Nada Kuya. Likewise, the dragons supplied the rechristened Sacred Stones to the people of Magvel; the myth that they came from the heavens is a simplification along the lines of the myth of Narga the Guardian God. Seriously, is there any other sword in Fire Emblem that is specifically said to have been crafted from the fang of a dragon? I'd really like to know, because I just can't think of any.
That the story of Nada Kuya and her sword is buried in the supports of Eirika and one of her less-favored suitors is... interesting. Someone recently dug up the pre-release FE8, and apparently Saleh had a more prominent role than he did in the finished game. In between Saleh being the fount of information on the distant past, and the fact that his child by Eirika (the only known child of any of her potential marriages) bears a striking creepy resemblance to Nada Kuya, I think we might have a vestige of a discarded plotline here.
Stepping out on a limb here, I'll say that I suspect that Nada Kuya Jr. is some kind of... serendipitous breeding experiment, along the lines of Yurius from FE4. The union of Eirika and Saleh joins up two long-dormant bloodlines, with the result being an unnerving "reincarnation." We might even step all the way out on that limb and suggest that one of those bloodlines might trace all the way back to Archanea... and from there, quite possibly, another thousand years back into Jugdral's gory history books.
I'll just say that there is a world of potential in that kid-- especially if she ever gets her hands on that ancient sword.
Oh, yes. And Gharnef was actually called "Dark Demon King" instead of "Dark Pontiff" in the earlier games. :D
Then again, I think our familiar Demon King looks more like the cosmic horror that is Dark God Doma.
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I've heard this theory before, I think on TVTropes's WMG page for FE, and I rather like it.
I wonder if Saleh/Eirika subtext/hinting was supposed to have more prominent in the early version of FE8 as well. Seth/Eirika is the most popular and the hints for THAT are kinda shoved down our throats, but the least popular Eirika pairing is the only one that results in a kid.
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But I'm glad you find it interesting. :)
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The Nada Kuya thing is really interesting though. I might have to dig deeper into that...
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It HAS to be a reference to Falchion, IMO. Now whether it's a cute throwaway or there's intended to be a legit connection is totally up in the air.
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I've heard the Sacred Stones = spheres theory, too, and I'll confess that that, along with some of the "similarities" I've seen, as a casual observer, between Magvel and Archanea, is pretty much the biggest reason I'm looking to play the latter ASAP.
And the idea of Tiki being a matriarch for the dragon tribe... That's got me thinking of possible dragon lifestyles, but that really has nothing to do with this topic so I'll ruminate on that further. :P (Though some aspects of it might tie into things nicely, now that I think about it. We'll see.)
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I think it was linked to in the comments of one of the magvel comm essays-- possibly that Eirika/Saleh manifesto I wrote. Basically, Saleh shows up in a blaze of glory when Eirika's bracelet goes missing, saves the bracelet, butts heads with Seth, and is defended by Eirika.
It's... different.
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Then again, if Saleh and Seth did but heads, we'd have Saleh being portrayed as the villain impeding any romance between Seth and Eirika. Goody. /sarcasm
But I digress. I'm curious, actually, if it's ever stated (or even hinted) just how Nada Kuya got her sword and if this could somehow go back to the Archanea tie-in. (And if it is said, my apologies--my memory regarding this is shot. XD)
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"And leading the charge against the invaders was Nada Kuya. She carried a narrow sword made from a fang gifted to her by the dragonkin. With her dragon blade in her hand, she drove Caer Pelyn's enemies away."
Either the sword already existed, and they "gifted" it to her, or they just handed her a fang and somebody made a sword out of it. I find the former more likely. And that's it-- I believe the supports and the Eirika/Saleh ending text is the sum total of what we have on Nada Kuya Warrior Princess.
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LOL. You mean he isn't?
Actually, with the blaze of glory thing he might come off as more hot-headed and glory seeking instead of an intelligent/protector; which seems to be Eirika's type apparently. :P
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Follow the forum threads linked to there under "Beta dialogue"~
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I have a lot of trouble with Jayden's connection between Gharnef and the DK, simply because, as you said, the DK is far from human. Connecting that with Doma, though. . . that would be a pretty interesting turn. If one went with Magvel as the future of Archanea, the Demon King could feasibly be a remanifestation of Doma, one who said "oh that whole leaving humanity alone thing? I lied."
. . .Oh I quite like that angle.
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We know Doma and Mila took a nice extended nap. We don't know what they were like, or what the world was like, when they awoke. And FE2 especially makes the point that peace is always temporary. There will always be another act in the drama, because people can and will screw up-- also a motif in FE3.
As for the Nada Kuya thing... it has to matter in some way. Especially with that kid.
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I don't earnestly think Tellius is Jugdral's predecessors, but I think there are a few uncanny connections. The marks, as you said. And then there's the theme of racial evolution in Tellius. Because of the unfortunate consequences to any laguz that mix blood, I speculate that they are thereafter infertile (purely my headcanon because I believe it makes more sense and causes fewer contradictions than if they did remain fertile). Combined with laguz lifespan and therefore sexual maturity rates/gestation periods, their species is comparatively delicate. Throw in a few small, violent mishaps for a genetic bottleneck (The true "Miracle at Darna"?) and the laguz race might disappear into the Branded. We already see this potential with the massive devastation of the Goldoan population during Radiant Dawn.
It is also a fact that Yune speculated about what the Branded might "become", and we never got to find out what happens when Branded mix blood. Maniacal stat growths and an innate ability for fantastic weaponry, apparently?
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Incidentally, regarding Elibe: I think Elibe is the continent in which we have the weakest canon regarding the existence of a divine power. The fact that the crusaders are worshipped there allows a lot of malleability regarding their divine figures and origin myths, I feel.
It's probably the best mixer, which is why it amuses me that no one has tried too hard to play with Elibe yet. :P (Although Uncharted Fates (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6845690/1/Uncharted_Fates) has a very pleasing mix of Tellius and Elibe, even though its intention is not purely meta.)
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Given Narga transformed into a beautiful maiden to "bond" with Saint Heim, I think that idea has always been in play in some fashion.
It is also a fact that Yune speculated about what the Branded might "become"
Oh, interesting.
It's probably the best mixer, which is why it amuses me that no one has tried too hard to play with Elibe yet.
It feels pretty distinctive, though-- and the extant crossovers are usually a) SSB-based and b) not very good.
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Oh! I forgot to bring this up earlier (assumed we all knew it) but it's relevant so I might as well stick it here for completion.
Stefan: My laguz blood gives me great power. I thought about using my power to gain revenge against the people who scorned me, but I decided against it. I have found friends, people who live outside the normal worlds of the beorc and the laguz. People who bear the brand.
I think the Dragon's Gate has a lot of potential. Do you know if anyone's thought deeply upon it before?
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On that aspect of it, no. All the ruminations of the Dragon's Gate I've seen have basically been the Elibe-to-Archanea hypothesis. [I've seen some speculation that Valor connects to the FE3 Ice Temple; I say it goes to the Dragon's Altar in Dolhr]. But the Tellius idea is awfully appealing, given I don't believe it to be on the same planet as any of the rest.
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On the other hand, the idea of their lifespans being longer on the other side, in addition to the white dragons in FE9/10 (although their "icy breath" is a purely NoA fabrication), and the laguz stone being a great catalyst but not a requirement to transform....