mark_asphodel (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
mark_asphodel) wrote2011-01-21 06:22 pm
mark_asphodel) wrote2011-01-21 06:22 pm
Entry tags:
New Thoughts on Ephraim
IT'S A TROLL, GUYS.
He admits to being an ex-troll. He admits to being a trouble maker. And he comes on with his barrage of bogus facts, his misuse of inflammatory words (Ellen the pedophile?), and his statements that cannot be taken as anything but offensive, and the people who call him out on it can't get a break.
OTOH, rebuttals to his trolling have stimulated some actual discussion of canon in that Pairing Game thread.
But dammit, if I were a mod I'd have banned his ass by now. (Greener, not Korean Boron Etc)
-x-
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emblanon caught my eye. Not convinced Ephraim is intended as disinterested in women. He reacts too strongly to L'Arachel, IMO. And if you don't think that's a reaction, compare Eph's interactions with L'Arachel to, say, Marth's interactions with any female not named Caeda in any of the Archanea games. By Fire Emblem standards, "She's rather cute" is practically "I'd hit that."
But I don't see his "support" with L'Arachel as anything terribly deep and meaningful, and I do not for one second believe in his relationship with Tana (and the anons outlined the disconnect in that relationship pretty well).
And Ephraim is kind of... odd, at least as far as his paired endings go.
Let's recap:
Early FE games presented a One True Love set-up for the main character. You have Alm/Cellica and Sigurd/Diadora (mandatory canon), Marth/Caeda and Leaf/Nanna (default canon), and that was that. But FE4 presented the world with Pimpmaster Celice and his harem of eligible women, and that continued with Super Pimp Roy and his gaggle of beauties in FE6. (The sex appeal of either Celice or Roy utterly eludes me.) Even so, the game played favorites-- clearly Celice is supposed to go withYuria Rana, and I think FE6 pushes Lilina moreso than Roy's other options. Then come FE7, the two male Lords have three marriage options each; in Eliwood's case, the game again is pretty overt about Eliwood/Ninian... and in Hector's case, I personally think that the unlockable Hector/Lyn content was intended as a hint along the same lines. But, as with Celice and Roy, you cannot say that any of the possible options is True Canon.
Then we get to FE8, wherein Eirika continues the proud pimpmaster tradition by being able to snag Seth, or Saleh, or Innes, and arguably Forde (hey, they have a paired ending, which is more than Rennac gets with L'Arachel). Her brother, on the other hand, gets two actual marriage options-- Tana (whose support conversations are, IMO, off-putting and cold), and L'Arachel (which the game script doesn't really seem to take seriously). Of the two, the script seems to be pushing Tana... but Eph's interactions with her just don't sound convincing.
Tana, you're still just a child at heart, aren't you?
No, I meant it as a compliment. Because you're so young, your words have such a simple, honest purity... I do appreciate your affection.
Whoa, my heart is just melting. :/
Compare that with this:
We grew up like brother and sister, but you were always the one helping me. I was able to come this far because you were always there for me, to support me and cheer me up. Nanna, once this war ends, I'll go look for Lachesis as well. And when I find her, I'm going to ask her directly...for your hand, Nanna... (Leaf, FE5)
Or this:
I want to see your smile more than your power. (Roy to Sofia, FE6)
Or this:
Ninian, I love you. That will not change, no matter what may come...
I don’t care what your secret is-- I will still feel the same. If something troubles you, let me sweep it away. (Eliwood, FE7)
Not that there aren't other unromantic supports that end in a marriage, but the issue with Ephraim is that both of his marital options are... unsatisfying. And as for his other paired endings...
1) With Eirika. Take that any way you wish.
2) With Myrrh. Explicitly cast as a big brother/little sister relationshipechoing earlier games.
His other supports are with Forde, Kyle and Duessel; none of these come across as epic bromances, much less romances. But there's more warmth in his supports with these three than there is in his supports with Tana. Also, please ignore Lyon's corpse behind the curtain. We don't have time for that tonight.
Anyway, all of this has bothered me for a while, but I'd never really thought of the possibility that there was actually something wrong with Ephraim. So, I'll be thinking that one over for a while.
All this has made me reconsider the Tana/Ephraim!fail piece I drafted out a while back. Maybe I will write that one up after all.
He admits to being an ex-troll. He admits to being a trouble maker. And he comes on with his barrage of bogus facts, his misuse of inflammatory words (Ellen the pedophile?), and his statements that cannot be taken as anything but offensive, and the people who call him out on it can't get a break.
OTOH, rebuttals to his trolling have stimulated some actual discussion of canon in that Pairing Game thread.
But dammit, if I were a mod I'd have banned his ass by now. (Greener, not Korean Boron Etc)
-x-
This on
emblanon caught my eye. Not convinced Ephraim is intended as disinterested in women. He reacts too strongly to L'Arachel, IMO. And if you don't think that's a reaction, compare Eph's interactions with L'Arachel to, say, Marth's interactions with any female not named Caeda in any of the Archanea games. By Fire Emblem standards, "She's rather cute" is practically "I'd hit that."But I don't see his "support" with L'Arachel as anything terribly deep and meaningful, and I do not for one second believe in his relationship with Tana (and the anons outlined the disconnect in that relationship pretty well).
And Ephraim is kind of... odd, at least as far as his paired endings go.
Let's recap:
Early FE games presented a One True Love set-up for the main character. You have Alm/Cellica and Sigurd/Diadora (mandatory canon), Marth/Caeda and Leaf/Nanna (default canon), and that was that. But FE4 presented the world with Pimpmaster Celice and his harem of eligible women, and that continued with Super Pimp Roy and his gaggle of beauties in FE6. (The sex appeal of either Celice or Roy utterly eludes me.) Even so, the game played favorites-- clearly Celice is supposed to go with
Then we get to FE8, wherein Eirika continues the proud pimpmaster tradition by being able to snag Seth, or Saleh, or Innes, and arguably Forde (hey, they have a paired ending, which is more than Rennac gets with L'Arachel). Her brother, on the other hand, gets two actual marriage options-- Tana (whose support conversations are, IMO, off-putting and cold), and L'Arachel (which the game script doesn't really seem to take seriously). Of the two, the script seems to be pushing Tana... but Eph's interactions with her just don't sound convincing.
Tana, you're still just a child at heart, aren't you?
No, I meant it as a compliment. Because you're so young, your words have such a simple, honest purity... I do appreciate your affection.
Whoa, my heart is just melting. :/
Compare that with this:
We grew up like brother and sister, but you were always the one helping me. I was able to come this far because you were always there for me, to support me and cheer me up. Nanna, once this war ends, I'll go look for Lachesis as well. And when I find her, I'm going to ask her directly...for your hand, Nanna... (Leaf, FE5)
Or this:
I want to see your smile more than your power. (Roy to Sofia, FE6)
Or this:
Ninian, I love you. That will not change, no matter what may come...
I don’t care what your secret is-- I will still feel the same. If something troubles you, let me sweep it away. (Eliwood, FE7)
Not that there aren't other unromantic supports that end in a marriage, but the issue with Ephraim is that both of his marital options are... unsatisfying. And as for his other paired endings...
1) With Eirika. Take that any way you wish.
2) With Myrrh. Explicitly cast as a big brother/little sister relationship
His other supports are with Forde, Kyle and Duessel; none of these come across as epic bromances, much less romances. But there's more warmth in his supports with these three than there is in his supports with Tana. Also, please ignore Lyon's corpse behind the curtain. We don't have time for that tonight.
Anyway, all of this has bothered me for a while, but I'd never really thought of the possibility that there was actually something wrong with Ephraim. So, I'll be thinking that one over for a while.
All this has made me reconsider the Tana/Ephraim!fail piece I drafted out a while back. Maybe I will write that one up after all.
no subject
In contrast, I've always felt that Eph was the most realistic-- or at the very least the least idealized--of all the FE protagonists (of the ones I've played). He's not overly hotheaded like Hector, but at the same time he flat-out tells his sis that a part of him is driven to fight and enjoy battle. He's the classic strategist warrior-general, which is why I like him, but his romance IQ...well, not quite there. XD I don't see him as a romantic person, which is not to say I don't think of him as a loving person. It always seemed like his priorities were on ending the war and subsequently rebuilding and he just had no interest in forming a relationship while everything else was going on. We really don't have a baseline either, to judge how he approaches romance in peaceful times (other than the flashbacks to him w/ Eirika and Lyon)
(I've never shipped Ephraim/Tana either, personally; he just doesn't seem that into her. XD That marriage would be a good example of a purely political one, IMO.)
Hehe, I ship Eirika/Forde, and I'm completely unashamed ;P Eirika's a hundred times the playa that Roy will ever be. Roy has that inexplicable, incomprehensible Justin Beiber magnetism to him. ...okay, that was a low blow. I apologize, Roy.
no subject
I saw him as pretty sane myself. I mean... Eliwood? Is gonna have problems. You don't run your girlfriend through with a sword and just get over it... even if she does come back from the dead. Marth? Look, the damn script says he has problems. Ike? I haven't formed a solid opinion, but I don't think the number of Ike-gets-PTSD 'fics out there are completely out-of-character.
But Ephraim seemed a) old enough at the time all hell broke loose and b) together enough that I didn't think he would end up a twitching mess. Though, seriously, I do think his route contains a higher level of OMGWTFBBQ awfulness than Eirika's route. Yeah, Eirika had to deal with Ismaire's death, but Ephraim had to take on zombie!Vigarde. And watch the man crumble to dust. Plus Ephraim knows the truth about Morvas.
Anyway... I think I prefer competent!Eph (somebody has to be competent in this whole gang of weirdoes), but I did enjoy seeing Raphien's take on him.
he just doesn't seem that into her.
Nope. Not a bit. I can believe her as a childhood friend. I'm not disputing that. But I don't see a trace of romantic interest there on his part.
Hehe, I ship Eirika/Forde, and I'm completely unashamed
I like it, frankly. Sure, the text doesn't state they get married. It doesn't state outright that Innes marries Vanessa, either.
Okay, that was a low blow. I apologize, Roy.
HAH. I guess that makes sense. The Justin Bieber of Fire Emblem.