Pairing Meme: FE7 Time

[mark_asphodel]

Uh-oh.  I must be crazy to do this... posting my public opinions about the game that most of you hold dearest to your hearts when I've never unlocked Hector mode or played Hard Mode anything or unlocked most of the support convos or lived for years immersed in Elibe.

So, just take into account that these are all my own personal opinions and biases, mmmkay?
 
- One True Pairing Ship
- Canon Ship
- "If this happens I'll stab my eyes out with a spork" Ship
- "You are one sick bastard" Ship
- "I dabble a little" Ship
- "It's like a car crash" Ship
- "Tickles my fancy but not sold just yet" Ship
- "Makes no canon sense but why not" Ship
- "Everyone else loves it but I just don't feel it" Ship

OTP 'Ship: 
Don't have one yet. 

Though I must confess to a very strong preference for Hector/Lyn for political reasons.  I am not terribly taken with either Lyn or Hector as personalities (no, really) and their "courtship" contains some elements that annoy me.  But Lyn's various endings irk me greatly with regards to the fate of Caelin, and I much prefer the idea that Caelin passes to Lyn's own daughter rather than believing that, after fighting a struggle over her rights to Caelin in which people died, including decent people who were on the wrong side, she just "pulls a Nyna" and runs away to suit her own interests.  The idea that Lilina's ultimate role of unifying all of Lycia begins literally at home, with the union of her father's Ostia and her mother's Caelin, also pleases me.

Canon 'Ship:
Gotta go with Pent/Louise.  They're sweet, they're canon... they might be morons for messing around in wartime but I guess Klein's age was predetermined and that's how the timeline shook out.  And apparently Clarine turns out to be rather obnoxious.  But these two have some especially touching retreat quotes and I really don't understand why some people loathe them.  And Pent's cute.  

Spork 'Ship:
Oh, god.  So many of these.  If there's Matthew/Guy involved, I'm not reading it unless I really, really trust that author and have some kind of motivation to even be reading it.  Heath/Legault, same deal.  Kent/Sain, same deal.  Anything involving "sex" and Karel, same deal.  And the reason for all these is the same-- overexposure to bad fanfic back in the day when I was plowing through ffnet looking for anything related to the "Akaneia" games.  I saw enough M/G, H/L, and K/S that the 'fic summaries started to give me hives.  And use of Karel often just seems to be an excuse to be exceptionally gross.  Heath/Legault might be a fine pairing in some respect, but at this point, I just don't care what its good points are and I don't want to read it.

Sick Bastard 'Ship:
Some authors write things involving the morphs.  Some of these stories are really not that bad.  Some of them are.  Eliwood/Limstella was the centerpiece of a surprisingly thoughtful 'fic that threw FE6 canon out the window.  I'm still not sure whether I enjoyed it or not, but I certainly finished it.  Though it might have just been the realism of that story that impressed me, rather than the pairing; the author didn't hold back at all when inflicting dysentery upon Eliwood, and a lot of writers just wouldn't try.

Dabble 'Ship:
I'd kind of like to see some solid 'fics featuring Erk and Nino post-game.  I can see why no one writes it (the overwhelming predominance of Jaffar/Nino), but I like the possibilities.  He's very sweet with her... the picture book and everything.  Aww.

Car Crash 'Ship:
Eliwood/Fiora and Eliwood/Lyn.  Because of, you know, Ninian.  Eli/Fiora I sort of fancy on its own merits (and because I rather like to be weird), but I've finally fallen into the camp that says that, yes, Ninian really is Eliwood's True Love and he won't ever be the same if she goes through the Gate.  Eliwood/Fiora is going to be problematic (and boy did I like "Fools Rush In" by sacae  for tackling some of the problems), and we know it can't possibly end Happily Ever After.   As for Eliwood/Lyn, I don't believe them to be anything more than dear friends, and while I can appreciate the fictional possibilities of Eliwood turning to his best friend for comfort, there are again going to be Issues.  And this one doesn't end so well either.

Also, realistically?  Hector/Farina is going to be like a fifty-car pileup in the center of Ostia.

Harken/Isadora has the hint of screeching metal and burning gasoline around it, too.


Not Sold 'Ship:
Lots of pairings, really.  I dunno.  Erk/Priscilla?  

Why Not? 'Ship:
Friends have successfully made the case to me that Sain/Florina ought to have been a viable option.  Sain is, whatever his quirks, a gentle man as well as a gentleman and would treat Florina very well.

Also rather liked shining_valor 's take on future!Pent/Louise wherein Pent is all wrapped up in his studies and Louise is consoling herself with Erk.

And finally-- I like Hector/Serra, dammit!  That's another one that should've been canon.  It's loopy and whacked-out and there's such poignant depth behind Serra's confabulations and I.  Just.  Like.  It.  [FWIW, Serra = an evolution of FE3's Melissa with more than one facet to her personality.]

Not Feelin' It 'Ship:
I understand why people gravitate to Kent/Lyn (well, for a start, it's about the only marriage ending that doesn't assume that she DIES), but in spite of the many fellow writers who have made the case for it, this pairing is something I like and read only on an intermittent basis.  A handful of stories have connected with me emotionally, but most don't, and I think the problem is mostly that I'm not especially taken with Lyn.

Same thing with Hector/Florina.  This is a "type" of pairing (super-shy and gentle girl, big lummox of a guy) that fails to move me in general, and while individual stories have touched me, as it stands I consider this to be the least preferred of Hector's canon-pairing options.  As in, "I'd rather see him with Eliwood."

While Raven/Lucius can be done decently, usually it just seems like an excuse for stereotypical seme/uke garbage.  Again, I trust some authors in particular and don't bother with the rest.

[I can tell when I'm really only connecting with particular stories and not with a pairing based on whether or not I bother looking for fanart.  If it's purely the writer, I ain't digging up fanart for that couple, because it's not really the couple that clicks for me.]

Finally, Nino and Jaffar?  Yeah, I know it's one of those canon-preferred things where you're really supposed to go with Jaffar even if Erk is technically an option, but it leaves me quite frigid.  I wouldn't say I hate it, exactly, but I don't react well to it and I can't entirely say why just yet. 

There.  I did it.  Meme's done, unless I'm going to half-ass my way though Jugdral.  Not touching Tellius with a ten-foot pole.

Comments

[hooves.livejournal.com]

PFFF ILU. For being opinionated. YES.

Spork ships-- I agree 100% on all of those. I actually see Karel as asexual, and there are so many shitty attempts at Matthew/Guy and Kent/Sain and Legault/Heath (that, by the way, bring a whole new meaning to OOC) that it's enough to really make you contemplate grabbing a fork for your eyes.

Dabble ship-- I actually like the idea of Erk and Nino, and might play around with it for my novelization. I can see Jaffar/Nino, but the cliché (badass serious killer + hyper young girl who loves him) not only doesn't do it for me...it's been WAY OVERDONE. (And, by the way, done much, much better.) IMHO, Erk/Nino makes the *most* sense in terms of canon. Erk and Nino and Jaffar are all gone-- it's safe to assume that Erk either went into hiding or (as per canon ending) went after Nino. I don't think Nino wouldn't like Jaffar, because he's something familiar to cling to, I guess. But after spending time with Lyn (who seems to sort of mother her?) and then with Erk and even others, I think she'd actually grow apart from Jaffar. Then again, I also feel he couldn't ever really love her and care for her and give her what she needs. TL;DR...their relationship would be really, really fucked up. And in the worst of ways.

Car Crash ships-- Oh God, so much to say. I'll try to keep it short.

1.) Eliwood/anyone that isn't Ninian.

A.) Eliwood/Lyn just makes me :| In a lot of ways, it's worse (more tragic?) than Eliwood/Fiora. I guess I see it as being that way because Lyn frolics off to Sacae again in canon, which tells me she wouldn't be happy living anywhere else (for an extended period of time/for the rest of her life). No matter what anyone says, some people get severely homesick even if they really love someone and want to be with them. (I don't think love conquers all, obviously. Hah.) The good thing about it is that they are, at least, good friends. But it would feel too platonic to me. Meh.

B.) Eliwood/Fiora. Ah! Glad you liked that 'fic, by the way. I have been thinking way too much about characters over the last however many years. sain and I regularly would have long (4+ hour) discussions about pairings and characters, and realism-- "Will ____/_____ work out?" The game crams Ninian down your throat, and he's very affectionate toward her in canon-- if he wasn't, I would probably enjoy Eliwood/Fiora a lot. However, the game at least makes it pretty clear that his #1 pick is Ninian, and anyone else would be second best/leftovers.

I could have gone much deeper into the Eliwood/Fiora pairing, and I might with a novelization. I honestly can't decide on things like pairings because I like so many. I love triangles, but writing several of them... eh. At any rate, I can see Eliwood/Fiora working out, but like I tried to show with that 'fic...I don't see both of them being truly happy.

C.) I love Hector/Farina. He has the dynamic with her that he has with Lyn, but Farina won't want to run off to Sacae and very likely wants to stay as far from Ilia's shittiness as she can get. Also, their "arguments" aren't really arguments so much as they're Farina being distrusting. And IMHO she probably has a lot of reasons to be. Someone did mention writing a story about having her run away after marrying Hector, though, and I found that to be intriguing. (Way, way more intriguing than Lyn doing something similar. But I think this was because Farina would probably take stuff. Maybe.) But it's very car-crashy, not only because of Farina's inability to trust, but because Hector's a protecting type and Farina doesn't seem to want to be "protected". I do see it working, and I like it much more than Hector/Florina (AHH DON'T SHOOT ME) but it wouldn't ever be a perfect ending type thing.

D.) Harken/Isadora doesn't bode well with me, either. I really like shimizu_hitomi's 'fic about Isadora. I still don't like Harken, though. He's a loser in my book. :/

2/2

[hooves.livejournal.com]

Why not? ship-- YES. I like the idea of Sain/Florina, too. Or Wil/Florina. Or Florina/someone that isn't Hector. I could ABSOLUTELY see her crushing on Hector (he is handsome), but I think she'd be better off with someone else.

Also, Hector/Serra. ♥ I would write it, but I wouldn't know where to start, and I guess I was always afraid of "breaking canon" by trying to make a marriage out of it. I could always be fucked up and write something Hector/Farina, Hector/Florina, or Hector/Lyn and have him cheat on his wife with Serra. But fandom would probably string me up by my eyelashes. :| I have thought about doing it, though. Yeah, I'm messed up.

Not feelin' it ship--

A.) Sorry to hear you're not feelin' the KentLyn love, but lots of people don't, either, so you're not alone. At first I'll admit I was a little skeptical of the pairing-- I was a former hardcore HectorLyn shipper, you know, and found a KentLyn 'fic while looking for HectorLyn stuff.

It all settles on the characters, though. There are some pairings I like, but not on a general, overall level. For example, Erk/Serra could be super screwy...but it has potential to be interesting. Maybe he didn't win over Priscilla and he's using her to take her place? Another great example is Pent/Louise. They're sugarplum fairies and it's boring to me. But if you look deeper at their life, their relationship, and so on, you can see that it's not all happy rainbows and puppies-- and that makes them interesting as a romantic pairing. (Also, nobody gets married expecting or thinking things will go bad or that they'll fight, et cetera. So having a couple like PentLouise get into an argument or disagree? Gives them a lot of depth and makes them more relateable to the average person.)

In short, I like KentLyn, and I honestly should explore the things about their relationship that I haven't touched yet. Like you mentioned Lyn's selfishness. I keep intending to cover things like that in a novelization, but I haven't gotten far enough to bother with it. (I actually found a lot of fault with how they wrote Lyn-- too many inconsistencies with her character.)

B.) A few people have convinced me Hector/Florina can work. But overall I don't see it, it doesn't touch or move me, et cetera. I do write about it on occasion as you might have noticed (:P) but while the type appeals to me (shy girl/brash big guy) the characters together do not. Hector's a good guy, but he's not a gentle giant. he's relatively nice to Farina, nice to Florina and Hector, but to Lyn he says a few hurtful things and probably doesn't realize it. I actually think he'd be way more likely to hurt Florina's feelings on accident and alienate her from him than anything. Actually quite depressing when you think about it.

C.) Raven/Lucius, I agree totally. Most of it's garbage. Which is too bad. I love Lucius. (But no matter how hard I try, I can't stand Raven-- IMHO he's one of the worst characters in the game for me. I hate writing about him.

D.) Jaffar/Nino, again, I agree with this. Everyone talks about the age difference, which I always thought was 14-year-old Nino and 17 (or 19)-year-old Jaffar. IMHO that's nothing. If you go by Japanese ages, Lyn's only 15, and Kent's in his 20s. Sain is also in his 20s, so if you paired him with FLORINA it'd be a bigger age gap. And people go all BLAHBLAHBLAH about Nino and Jaffar, but what about OSWIN and SERRA? :| (I'm immune to age differences after going after someone 21 years older than me, maybe. 1.) It's a medieval society, and 2.) if the two people involved are willing and understand what they're doing, who cares? But yeah, Jaffar/Nino presses many wrong buttons and raises too many red flags for me to like it on a general level. I can appreciate its fucked-up-ness, but I haven't felt much like writing about them.

Though I intend to, someday.

Re: 2/2

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

Everyone talks about the age difference, which I always thought was 14-year-old Nino and 17 (or 19)-year-old Jaffar. IMHO that's nothing. If you go by Japanese ages, Lyn's only 15, and Kent's in his 20s. Sain is also in his 20s, so if you paired him with FLORINA it'd be a bigger age gap
Also since the game was made in Japan, they're basing some of the stuff on their own culture. The age of consent in Japan is thirteen and it's not uncommon to see a fourteen year old with someone who's almost out of high school/in college. So Lyn being fifteen and Kent being in his twenties? Here we'd be all, "ZOMG," but in Japan they'd just shrug their shoulders and go, "So?"

also yes back in the medieval times it wasn't uncommon for a twelve year old girl to marry a man old enough to be her father so there's that too.

Re: 2/2

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

I don't care about the age difference in Nino/Jaffar. That's the least of my concerns.

Actually, Abel/Est has a pretty big age gap, too... but then again, that one doesn't work out so well, does it?

also yes back in the medieval times it wasn't uncommon for a twelve year old girl to marry a man old enough to be her father so there's that too.

Hell, in the glory days of Rome, it was mandatory....

Re: 2/2

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

I actually don't really care about age difference either. It's how the pairing itself WORKS that I care about. And TBH I really don't care much about the pairings in FE7 anymore because I kinda left that part of fandom a while ago. And Nino/Jaffar? Is kind of...eh. To me it's one of those overly written pairings that just makes me headdesk and move on, much like my reactions to Kent/Sain, Matthew/Guy, Heath/Legault, etc. etc.

I don't know what the hell they're even doing to most of the characters(' relationships) anymore. I think my mind is still boggled from what they did to Abel and Est, let alone what they did to them as a pairing.

Aah, Rome. They sure were, uh, interesting people. Kinky, kinda like the Greeks.

Re: 2/2

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

I could ABSOLUTELY see her crushing on Hector (he is handsome), but I think she'd be better off with someone else.

Yeah, really.

But fandom would probably string me up by my eyelashes.

Screw fandom. Do it! I mean, I understand where you're coming from, and I'm relieved to write for a smaller subset of the fandom that has yet to lynch me for writing Marth/Nyna, but still...

For example, Erk/Serra could be super screwy...but it has potential to be interesting. Maybe he didn't win over Priscilla and he's using her to take her place?

Ooh, yeah.

I actually found a lot of fault with how they wrote Lyn-- too many inconsistencies with her character.

Yeah, IS seems to have some persistent ISSUES in that regard. See: various contradictory permutations of Marth

Hector's a good guy, but he's not a gentle giant.

Word.

[thenicochan.livejournal.com]

It seems like a lot of people don't like Harken/Isadora. I dunno, I thought they were awesome. I <3 Harken, I think he's a really interesting character.

You wouldn't like Raven/Lucius though, would you? I mean...it's slash XD. Either way, I think the pairing could be really interesting if written well and not falling into awful yaoi stereotypes (i.e: Lucius: BOOHOOHOO I was raped my mean Hector! // Raven: Oh no, Lucius-kins! Here, have my HEALING COCK!), and going beyond what's in the game (i.e: Lucius: Lord Raven, allow me to be with you. // Raven: STFU I'm angsting.) They have an interesting dynamic not really touched upon in the game because...well...Raven's kinda of a douchebag.

I want you to write that novelization. All this talk about it has me excited to see what you would do with it.

Oh, and I agree with some of what you said of Pent/Louise OTP. It would be nice to see a little less perfection, but I love them as they are. I see some issues with their relationship as is though. Pent is always spending all his time away from Louise, focused on MAGIC!! and other things. I'd love to see a fic dealing with them drifting apart or him dealing with her death. He obviously loves her intensely, but I think he takes Louise for granted and just assumes she'll always be behind him no matter what.

[sailorvfan10.livejournal.com]

I... TBH I never really liked Harken all that much. He was too whiny, even though Marcus basically tells him, "STFU ALREADY, YOU CAN'T BRING LORD ELBERT BACK, IT WAS A TRAGEDY AND I GET THAT, BUT FFS MAN, YOU HAVE LORD ELIWOOD TO LOOK AFTER, GET A GRIP OR I WILL SMACK YOU >:|" I was always like, "GOD, CRY MOAR, HARKEN."

I like Isadora with Marcus. Or Legault. But not Harken. I think she could find someone better.

And while yes there are ttly slashy vibes between Raven and Lucius, count me as one of the people who doesn't really care too much about it too.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

I like Isadora with Marcus.

/would so ship it

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

Harken and Isadora are like Astram and Midia from FE3, except crazy. Astram is a blockheaded tool and Midia is the original Female Fail!din, but they're not especially tormented people. They're too convinced of their own righteousness, I guess (even when they're serving the wrong team, as Astram does again, and again, and again...).

I'm not sure if I like Harken and Isadora or not, but I do think they're a mess.

He obviously loves her intensely, but I think he takes Louise for granted and just assumes she'll always be behind him no matter what.

This is true. I think Manna actually wrote a ficlet tackling just that issue some time last year.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I did. Uhmmmm (I had to look it up), Five More Minutes (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4135438/43/Every_Color_of_the_Rainbow). I don't really want the pairing to go that way, of course. They're really sweet and it'd be nice if they didn't. But it wouldn't be hard to see it happening.

[mark-asphodel.livejournal.com]

IMHO, Erk/Nino makes the *most* sense in terms of canon. Erk and Nino and Jaffar are all gone-- it's safe to assume that Erk either went into hiding or (as per canon ending) went after Nino.

Sounds like you're the perfect person to write them, then! I can buy that.

But I think this was because Farina would probably take stuff. Maybe.

OK, you had me laughing on the floor with that one-- because it's too true!

I also see Hector/Farina as a big explosion because of the simple fact that he's Marquess Ostia and that makes Miss Mercenary the marchioness and... yeah. If they were two regular people, it would still be a volatile relationship. Put these two together as the Lord and Lady and ka-boom! That said, I also prefer it to Hector/Florina.

I still don't like Harken, though. He's a loser in my book.

He's an expy of one of the biggest tools in FE3 (Astram). A number of FE7 characters are pretty blatant FE3 expies. Like, uh, Serra.

Reposted for HTML fail.

[hooves.livejournal.com]

I don't think badly of Farina-- I think she's had a really hard life and has done a lot of things she probably regrets doing. But if I was going to leave a marriage with a nobleman, I'd probably take some stuff, too. It's not like they'd miss it. (But then imagine how sad Hector would be. I don't know that I myself could write a 'fic like that and break his fictional heart.)