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Modern AUs: You'd Hate Your Favorite Character

I was gonna do that fanfic meme that's been going around but my answers are boring and evasive.

On an IM the other night, Ammie dropped a revelation: Soren, in an "our world" modern AU, would vote Republican.

You can agree or disagree or debate the merits of the label, but she had a point. At least in Fire Emblem fandom, many of the characters if transplanted to our own world and time would probably not be people that internet scribblers (who often hit the "progressive" label on one point or another) tend to associate with. A lot of 'em would vote Republican, or Tory, or Conservative... though perhaps they'd better fit the party labels of a previous generation than, say, anything to do with the Tea Party.

Who are these people? Nobles and those who serve them. The privileged. Representatives of and defenders of the social structure. Not being a racist, or not being in favor of child sacrifice, doesn't make one not a small-c conservative. But how many Fire Emblem playable characters even fit a small-d democrat or small-r republican label? Dude... these are monarchists, for the most part. Oligarchs. Theocrats. Like... no.

If anything, many of these playables are genuine conservative characters putting down a rebellion from fringe elements, and their victory is The Old Status Quo, But Better. And IMO, a modern AU that doesn't GET that is likely to be off-base if it tries to deal with the characters in any kind of political/ideological sense. C'mon, picture AU Seth-- he's a career military man. Maybe not the most religious guy around in an orthodox sense (re: Natasha supports), but otherwise he's all about orthodox values. Country. King. Law and Order. And, yes, God. He probably votes to keep cops on the streets and keep teenagers from getting out of hand. He probably votes to keep marijuana illegal and the penalties for trafficking stiff. He probably thinks "marriage" consists of man + woman and wouldn't see anything wrong with DADT. He's against animal abuse but not much concerned about animal rights. He eats meat and doesn't think much about where his produce is "sourced" or whether or not the stuff's organic (but GM crops sound suspicious to him). He wouldn't want his tax dollars going toward Piss Christ.

(I think the God part may be hard to incorporate unless a character is a pre-packaged cleric because many writers are not religiously orthodox-- or they're coming at faith from something other than the pseudo-Catholic structure of most Fire Emblem worlds. Ordinary characters in FE do not have personal relationships with their Savior; that's limited to the elite, the elect. And you're not it unless your name is Claude, or Micaiah, or some other Chosen specimen.)

I mean, I could see Pent as a fringe-progressive guy, but even so he's coming at the system from a position fairly high within it-- NOT from the outside. He's anything but disenfranchised. Levin... well, in his bard phase Levin strikes me someone who could be tweaked into 1950s/1960s radical, but even so it's all relative, given that you'd be comparing him to power-elite military types like Sigurd and Cuan. Seriously, if Jugdral were 1960s America, I'm pretty sure Sigurd and Friends would be hawks on 'Nam. Supporters of civil rights for 'colored people'? Yeah, maybe. But hawks on 'Nam. Likewise, Levin could be spun into a plausibly Jewish subversive (how appropriate to the era and its fears), compared to WASP-y Grandbellian elites and the oh-so-Irish Lenster crew, and all of those carry their own weight in the cultural context. Catholics then were not viewed as Catholics are now-- and that's just one detail.

(Alvis is the reformer who wants a world where people aren't persecuted for the circumstances of their birth and bloodline. Think about that one long and hard in the context of a modern-world AU. Ow.)

Stefan? Now, he's gonna mix stuff up. Oh yes. Tellius probably offers the widest range of slots to be adequately filled in an AU-- Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, and Other. And then someone like Marth just kind of doesn't work at all IMO in a modern AU, unless you make him something as exalted and untouchable in the bubble of the AU world as he is in his own. Paul McCartney or Yuri Gagarin, take your pick.

But if he could exist in 1960s America, Marth would probably also be a hawk on 'Nam. And maybe support bombing Cambodia. Just sayin'.

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Thinking about it, a lot of the "progressive" characters aren't the shining examples people might want to make them out as. Eliwood might be less conservative in values than others, but at best, he's still rich, sheltered, and privileged in basically every respect, even if that does come with a side of what's typically termed as "slacktivism".

Vaguely related, but I have a lot of trouble hashing out how characters feel about religion unless there's specific text about it. There's just very little on how important it is, outside the theocracies/clerics and the few people who've outright rejected the whole thing.

re: religion: do you mean, figuring out their religious views in-universe, or in AU-ish things?

in-universe, I agree that religion's mad-tricky to sort out; for games that deal so much with divine beings, they tend to skirt religion as much as possible. in an AU setting, though, I think it'd actually be sort of fun to speculate on the religious views of different characters...

eirika: moderate, relatively liberal Christian. prays somewhat regularly, esp. when in the middle of dire circumstances or a big decision

ephraim: went to church a couple times as a kid, mostly fidgeted in the pews the whole time and absorbed very little. probably has some vague belief in God if you ask him about it, but he doesn't think much about it otherwise

innes: ...would be just "Christian" enough to appeal to religious voters when he inevitably launches his political campaigns, but secretly thinks religion is largely irrelevant and a waste of time

etc etc idk, thinking about AU stuff is fun! : D

Both, actually. More the former, though, just because logically it would likely be a bigger part of life in the setting. . .but you get basically nothing, outside staunch believers (your priests and clerics) and cynics/heretics. It's easy to say that, for example, people in Jugdral are more apt to believe in the divine, because the proof for many of the main characters is right on their skin. But that certainly doesn't mean we know how they feel about all that. Even games where you outright fight gods don't touch on the "wait hold the boat we're killing God" that you might expect for most of the cast. Ike talks to Ashera basically like he'd talk to. . . anybody standing in his way, and that's a giant step beyond sassing Sanaki or treating Elincia like a bro.

(Of course, the genuine nature of the beliefs of even clerics and the like is up for debate-- I'd say Natasha, for example, seems more about the godliness thing than, say, Serra. And I think Renault's turn for religion is total BS.)

So with so little to go on, you really do have to make those gut instinct judgments in AU, I think. You don't always have the "well society would say ___" for every walk of life -- and I mean, even when I do have definite ideas of how characters see things, the implications would change drastically. Like, one of my firmest headcanon ideas on the topic is seeing canon Knoll as an atheist. But translating even something I think as clearly as that is hard! Believing there is no benevolent god as, I don't know, a college science professor or something probably does not have the same weight to his character that it does as someone who's personally faced something claiming to be a demon while rejecting the idea that there is still a "good" side to that coin. And conversely, someone who believed in the divine as fervently as L'Arachel does is a wee bit eccentric in Magvel-- but that would be seen as really outlandish and scary-extremist in many circles today. So do you temper that to give it the same feeling it has in canon, or leave it as is?

Religion in AUs is really tricky anyway, because in most games/canons, not enough is given to us about the characters to really form a coherent headcanon about it. For example, Serra prays, but for all the wrong reasons. Is she really religious, or just really naive and/or hopeful? When I was a kid, I believed God could do anything--still do, for the record, but that's neither here nor there-- and I prayed every day for a week after my dog Abby died that He would bring her back. Obbbviously He didn't, hahahaha, but Serra's prayers sorta come from that angle. Maybe she's REALLY serious! Maybe she's not-- she's just a "why the hell not, you never know" type of person. It's hard to say. It's pretty clear Oswin thinks what she does is practically blasphemy and also selfish, but there you go.

That said, re: L'Arachel, she's an interesting character, very difficult to pinpoint because she's like a nutty, fun version of Serra, without quite as much sad backstory. The issue with L'Arachel is mostly that she's all-around nutty. Religion isn't the exception or the rule-- she's just a bit cooky, period. So how religious would she be, really? We don't like to think of our favorite characters as annoying Bible Thumpers, but I'm wondering if L'Arachel might be the closest equivalent we have. She'd be annoying, pushy, bubbly, and just downright wanna-slam-the-door-in-your-face. I can see it now. But I like L'Arachel. I don't want her to be that way!

...But isn't that the point of this post? To see that characters we actually like might not be so likable to us as individuals? Hmmm, difficult to determine.

I mean, L'Arachel is a good character. If she's the pushy door-to-door Bible Thumper type, that's okay. I could see it being at least somewhat plausible. She might also be That Coworker who constantly asks you to go to church with them. Until you cave. And realize they have an AWESOME church (and the coworker is just insane). Or you run away screaming, depending on who you are. (Wanted: AU where L'Arachel convinces Innes to go to church with her. It'd be so funny.)

I could see Knoll as an atheist, but like you said, hard to really convert that to a modern-day AU.

Also if I'm to be frank, depending on the AU setting, things do change. Modern-day, most of us are pretty laid-back, open-ended, open-minded, and/or at least religious to the point of being annoying. Go back 100, 200, 500 years and religion becomes a LOT more important. I mean, think about it: In the 1800s, plenty of people traveled out west. Religion was a Big Deal. And church was pretty much your ONLY fun, sociable entertainment all week. You might drive miles and miles, leaving at dawn just to get to church on Sunday. Even people who were downright douchebags (womenbeaters, etc) went to church, maybe even enjoyed it, obviously had the wrong idea about How Things Really Should Be, but still.

I think I could deal with my favorite characters being not-my-cup-of-tea religious-wise, but how many of them might be douchebags IRL? I'd like to think none, but plenty of, erm, inherently good people, or good-hearted people, can still be awful. I'd like to think no good FE character would hit their wife/husband or treat their children badly, but it makes you wonder.

For example, Serra prays, but for all the wrong reasons. Is she really religious, or just really naive and/or hopeful?

Right. And you have clerics like Malliesia who seem to be clerics for no reason other than someone trained them to be, someone like Aideen who IMO did take vows for the wrong reasons, or at least reasons that weren't totally right, and then the troubadour/Valkyrie chicks who can use healing magic despite being interested in just about anything BUT religion.

Part of the deal with L'Arachel is that she's had a charmed life (except for the parents being dead). Her beliefs are never challenged. Things always go her way. How would L'Arachel react to something truly faith-challenging, like the death of her own child? IDK. Whereas a character like Leaf, whose entire life just consists of being kicked, and kicked, and failure... canon indicates that he and the people around him really do believe in the power of the gods that appear to keep letting them down. They believe that the god Noba will look out for them even when everything around them is being destroyed, including Noba's own representatives on earth. That's the kind of faith that I think a lot of writers might be uncomfortable with if they tried to translate it into our world, because it's an alien kind of mindset[*].

* I don't personally believe in gods but that doesn't mean I haven't thought long and hard about facets of the issue. If anything, I stopped being a Catholic in part because I take Catholicism too seriously to pretend to be one!

I could see Knoll as an atheist, but like you said, hard to really convert that to a modern-day AU.

After the game, yeah. Hell, Knoll's looked into the thing that formed the core of his life's work and watched as RenaisTwins killed it.

Religion was a Big Deal

Religion was a bigger part of civic life, but there seems to have always been a good number of people who didn't care about orthodox church rules and carried on with their own practices. We have evidence ranging from Ancient Egypt to 1300s Italy that, regardless of what the Pharoah or Pope said, a lot of people just said "whatever." But you can bet they showed up to the festivals!

I'd like to think no good FE character would hit their wife/husband or treat their children badly, but it makes you wonder.

Well, we do have Levin, the ultimate non-villainous terrible father. Even if he wasn't himself at the time. Other than that, and a few other cases that can be perceived as withholding/neglectful, I'm pretty sure we don't have any closet wife-beaters or child-abusers on the side of the Good Guys. [That's one issue I have with certain manga adaptions-- in anime and manga, a boy slapping a bitchy girl across the face can be seen as appropriate or even funny, and no way in hell does that translate to SRS Story without it looking like abuse.]

How would L'Arachel react to something truly faith-challenging, like the death of her own child?

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckdammit has that been written before? cause you know I love to write the sappiest shit. I would write it.

*rolls in*

you should write that because I would read the shit out of that.

...*rolls back out*

/chases soccerball!Lua

Well if you read the shit out of it THEN IT WOULD HAVE TO BE SHIT-FREE AFTERWARD. Whoa. *mind blown*

Actually, the idea is very tempting. L'Arachel reminds me a lot of Pollyanna, just saying. I bet L'Arachel plays The Glad Game.

Shit now I can't picture her as anyone but Pollyanna. :////

can I throw my support in the pile

Re: probably derailing even further oops

lyndis - 2012-08-04 20:39 (UTC) - Expand

Perhaps Leaf and crew believe so strongly in Noba because they need to in order to find the will to keep going.

I'm pretty sure that's the case. If Noba's a bust, they've got nothing.

IDK, I think "parents got eaten by hideous monsters (before the rest of the continent knew they were around)" is pretty ghastly-sad for L'Arachel /shot

I could totally see L'Arachel being like that, yeah. I could also see her being like my batty aunt, who's super into séances and ghosts and psychics. Modern L'Arachel might be handing out bibles door to door-- or she might be scowling at her friends' trust in "modern medicine" and insisting that they use crystals to "balance energies" instead. Each is equally likely to be someone I don't want to be around.

(And now I want 1800's AU with Spiritualist L'Arachel. Damn it.)

As for douchebags, yeah, that's true. What makes a fascinating character does not necessarily make a fun-to-be-around-- or good-- person.

IDK, I think "parents got eaten by hideous monsters (before the rest of the continent knew they were around)" is pretty ghastly-sad for L'Arachel

Yeah, but she already constructed a set of defenses around it. Her parents died heroically, fighting the good fight. Or she was young enough that she never knew them personally and it doesn't have the same impact we see with a lot of FE orphans or half-orphans. It's not the same thing as "Your son was thrown off his pony."

(And now I want 1800's AU with Spiritualist L'Arachel. Damn it.)

YES.

+1 on new-agey / spiritualist l'arachel: I think if she did the Christianity thing, she would get confused or annoyed when some of the older / more conservative members of the congregation looked down her nose at her (dressing to wildly/gaudily, or having really loud opinions about the Book of Thomas and all that)

...though she could run her own bible study. oh my, and what a bible study it would be.

...actually, the actual religion here probably doesn't matter so much, so long as she's getting to call the shots and play fast-and-loose with the facts

/shutsupbecausecarestoomuchaboutl'arachel

-- Or L'Arachel could found Mormonism.

Re: probably derailing even further oops

queenlua - 2012-08-04 20:44 (UTC) - Expand

Re: probably derailing even further oops

thenicochan - 2012-08-06 18:29 (UTC) - Expand

innes: ...would be just "Christian" enough to appeal to religious voters when he inevitably launches his political campaigns, but secretly thinks religion is largely irrelevant and a waste of time

As much as I'd like to agree with this, given the existence of an apparently Frelian-exclusive war god, I do have to wonder if Innes isn't a actually more devout and serious about faith than, say, Ephraim. I've had second thoughts on the matter, at any rate.

Now that you mention it, I see your point of view. At first I thought, no way would he be religious, but then I could easily see him as the type who appears to be less religious than he really is, for rep's sake(?).

Or just because it's private to him in a way that other things (competition!) aren't.

I mean, I think Innes's confidence could easily be allied to a rock-solid conviction not just that he's The Best, but that he's Right and the gods are with him. He doesn't necessarily think he's the superman at the center of a godless universe or anything like that.

That's kind of sweet.

I suddenly like Innes more.

agreed! I rather like this interpretation <3

Edited 2012-08-05 00:27 (UTC)

for games that deal so much with divine beings, they tend to skirt religion as much as possible.

I think it might be kind of an Asian thing. Divine influences are simply understood to permeate everything; people don't deal with the divine actively, however.

that's probably part of it!

though, as compared to other JRPGs, I still think Fire Emblem's skirting the issue more than most. I'm reminded of how both Final Fantasy X and Xenogears ended with "whups, turns out god is a lie/is evil, let's kill the bastard," with some associated existential angst—Chrono Cross had a bit of this too, now that I think of it. But like raphi mentioned earlier, in FE, defeating Ashera isn't treated as being dramatically different than defeating any other villain.

...or maybe I just play non-standard JRPGs idk

Actually, right after you defeat her there is a bit on gods' place in the world. And there are a few base conversations touching on the way doctrine has affected people¹. And also how weird it is that your god is trying to kill you. Sanaki attempts to give the throne to Micaiah because of her divine right; and then Sanaki's epilogue mentions a shift to secular rule.

Albeit, granted, it doesn't compare to Xenogears. But Xenogears is directly about gods and existence and all that. FE10 is about a lot of other things before that and happens to feature a pair of goddesses as characters.

¹
And from 4-3:
Sanaki: I don't understand. How can you be a goddess and not know? I thought
gods were perfect beings who knew everything!

Yune: Gods? Perfect? Where did you get that idea? You haven't met a lot of
gods, have you?

Sanaki: Well, no. But divinity created life from nothing! Surely only perfect
beings could do that!

Yune: We did create life, and can do many things that you creatures of flesh
can't. But that doesn't make us perfect. It just means we can make mistakes
on a much grander scale...

buen punto, those are all very nice bits from the script

Eliwood might be less conservative in values than others, but at best, he's still rich, sheltered, and privileged in basically every respect, even if that does come with a side of what's typically termed as "slacktivism".

Exactly.

There's just very little on how important it is, outside the theocracies/clerics and the few people who've outright rejected the whole thing.

There's also the possibility that FE-brand organized religions really are a bit more like the state religion of the Roman Empire, a ceremonial thing that nobles and the upper classes have the money to participate in, but that the peasants maybe have their own gods or folk practices and don't much care about what Bishop so-and-so says. I dunno what that translates to in modern times other than the startling amount of "Catholics" who don't follow orthodox practices and don't plan to start.

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Modern AUs: You'd Hate Your Favorite Character

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